DL103SA VS. SL1200: How I won the battle and lived happy (for a while)

[Gdg]

Yes of course ' but SME seem to offer a detachable headshell on any arm they make , you just have to ask and it can be done ' of course many would say why on a series V ? .

If you want it they will do it , i have to say i am looking forward to changing from my 160 , but it will have to wait till next year as i am skint at the moment.

Uhm... which is the SM309 tonearm mass, anyway? I can't find that.

So my final question is:
the DL 103 SA fits, mechanically speaking, the SME 309 ?
Has anyone around ever tested that combo?

Thank you

[chris@panteg]

Ahh yes ' Ralph (rem) uses a modded 103 with his 309 , i think you need to add a spacer/weight to get the correct mass .

The Jelco appears to be the better arm for your 103sa though giovanni .

[Gdg]

Ahh yes ' Ralph (rem) uses a modded 103 with his 309 , i think you need to add a spacer/weight to get the correct mass .

The Jelco appears to be the better arm for your 103sa though giovanni .

uhm... uhm...
my inexperience takes me to this new Q:
If get an higher compliance cart like the DL-304, is the Jelco still ok?
Thank you again

[REM]

Hi Giovanni

The 103 I normally use is the Zu modified version which weighs in at a substantial 14g and poses no problems in the 309, however I have also used (and am using at the moment while the Zu awaits an ESCo retip) a standard 103 with no problems whatsoever.

It's all to easy to get bogged down in numbers when it comes to cartridge/arm matching, what matters is what works not why it works and to this end I'm sure the 103SA would be equally happy in either the Jelco or SME.

However, given all the effort you have been to and the results you getting why change the arm at all?

Cheers.

[Gdg]

Hi Giovanni

It's all to easy to get bogged down in numbers when it comes to cartridge/arm matching, what matters is what works not why it works and to this end I'm sure the 103SA would be equally happy in either the Jelco or SME.

Hi Ralph,
ok, once it works, you are happy and go on listenenig to your music, without caring of numbers or whatever. But what, if it doesn't work ?

Hi Giovanni
However, given all the effort you have been to and the results you getting why change the arm at all?

Yeah, this is a *THE* Q I made myself, too. I guess it depends on one's personality and life-style. I just like to spend some of my rest time to try and improve my Hi-Fi and I enjoy doing that one step at time. But, again, there's no real reason to do that.

[Marco]

Hi Giovanni,

Uhm... which is the SM309 tonearm mass, anyway? I can't find that.

I think the effective mass of the 309 is around 10.5-11g, so it's certainly not a high-mass tonearm. It'll definitely need plenty of added mass on the headshell to work properly with a DL-103SA, but aside from that, it should make for a decent combination.

So my final question is:
the DL 103 SA fits, mechanically speaking, the SME 309 ?
Has anyone around ever tested that combo?

To be brutally honest, I wouldn't choose any modern SME arm to use with a DL-103, as in my opinion they work best on classic 'S'-shaped tonearms with detachable headshells, where one can then use something really high-mass, (such as the Ortofon or FR headshell I use), without the need for spacers.

I'm not a fan of using spacers, unless absolutely necessary, as they alter the resonant behaviour of the headshell (and arm). It's far better, in my experience, to have, say, a 17.5g headshell designed that way in the first place, than a 10g one 'modified' with a 7.5g spacer, if you see my meaning.....

The important question I'd ask you is if the DL-103SA is going to be your cartridge of choice for some time, and if it is, then you should buy a Jelco SA-750, as that's the best modern tonearm for any DL-103.

If, however, you're intending to use other cartridges in the near future, then the SME would be more flexible in that respect. A DL-304, for example, would work better on the 309 than on the Jelco.

Basically, it boils down to what your future intentions are, cartridge-wise

Marco.

[Gdg]

Hi Marco,
I'm just collecting knowledge to evaluate pros & cons of each option.

So you say:
* low compliance cartridge -> JELCO 750D
* middle/high compliance cartridge -> SME 309
Right?
That makes sense to me, too. And, yes, I can stick with DL 103 for a long while.

Jelco was my first idea, but, TBH, there's one thing I just don't like of Jelco: the way of adjusting the VTA is not easy like the stock or the SME tonearm.

Ok, I have to add an external VTA adjuster.

[Marco]

Hi Giovanni,

Yes, you've got it

Jelco was my first idea, but, TBH, there's one thing I just don't like of Jelco: the way of adjusting the VTA is not easy like the stock or the SME tonearm.

Agreed, but it's not like you're having to adjust VTA all the time, or are using multiple cartridges. Set it once correctly, lock it in place, and forget about it!

For me, the Allen key arm height adjustment is not that bad. And remember, I have to adjust VTA regularly when going from the SPU to the 103 or the M3D....... I don't find it a big deal.

Ok, I have to add an external VTA adjuster.

I'm not sure if, sonically, that's a good idea. Best speak to Shuggie (Hugo) about that, as I believe he's fitted one to his SA-750.

Marco.

[Ammonite Audio]

........... For me, the Allen key arm height adjustment is not that bad. And remember, I have to adjust VTA regularly when going from the SPU to the 103 or the M3D....... I don't find it a big deal.



I'm not sure if, sonically, that's a good idea. Best speak to Shuggie (Hugo) about that, as I believe he's fitted one to his SA-750.

Marco.

I am having a custom arm mounting collar made for the Jelco, to resolve the vertical rocking problem. The main difference over the stock collar is a bit of extra height, so that the grub screw presses on the arm pillar in a better place (eg not at the very top of the collar); also the grub screw itself is much bigger so it should be possible to just 'nip' the thing tight without boring into the soft metal of the arm pillar.

[Gdg]

Marco, it seems to me the Jelco hasn't any graduate reference on the pillar for the VTA (I mean same printed or engraved notch), so how do you know the exact VTA you're setting (or re-setting)? are you using a bubble level or your own eyes?

Shuggie, this seems to be interesting stuff. Any picture or any past thread about that ?

Mike New proposed his own solution, but it's complicated to me send some pieces of my TT to him to modifying them.

Thank you


EDIT: never mind Shuggie, I found it: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...?t=5633&page=1