Most difficult musical instrument for Hi Fi Systems to reproduce ?

[Pharos]

Recently I helped my neighbour fix his fence, and he was banging in nails a foot away from my head. I realised that even my advanced dynamic speakers could not do that.

Also, walking on the cliffs with another friend, we stopped and listened to the birds, no tweeter comes near that, not even my up to 50k Heils.

[User211]

Completely agree!

When you think about it expecting a few moving cones in boxes, electrostatic ribbons in panels, or flat panel speakers controlled by a electrical coils and magnets to re-create the transient response of myriads of instruments, natural, electric, & electronic along with the infinite variations in human voice is really expecting quite a lot, even with the perfect recording medium, replay mechanism, amplifiers, cable etc.

Excellent post.

[AJSki2fly]

Excellent post.

Thanks, I try my best


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[Light Dependant Resistor]

Any one here ever put either a record on or a CD and thought, F++k me! Where did that orchestra/band/singer come from?. I've never mistaken a recording for the real thing..

Happens quite a bit, wherever such sounds appear in recordings. As policy, I do not contribute to my own product discussed thread, but it is mentioned by others here too.
https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/top...ge/5/#comments " it's a really black canvas until an instrument suddenly jump out out of nowhere it is quite an experience."

[Macca]

Comparing real to recorded sound is like watching 'Where Eagles Dare' and comparing that experience to actually infiltrating a top secret Nazi headquarters. It's never going to come close but more importantly, it's not meant to!

Who records the drum part, puts it in the mix, plays it back and says, 'Nah this is no good, doesn't sound like the drum kit is in the room.' No-one. All that gating you get on the drum sound in 1980s recordings, how does that compare to a live drum kit sound? They are trying to make a recording that sounds good when you play it back on your hi-fi in your living room, not replicate a live event.

[anthonyTD]

Any one here ever put either a record on or a CD and thought, F++k me! Where did that orchestra/band/singer come from?. I've never mistaken a recording for the real thing. I think perhaps our forefathers were better off in one respect: because they did not have the means to capture music as it was played and to replay that captured music when and where they chose, many more of them learned to play instruments, so that the popular pieces of their day could be realised through piano transcriptions (for example). None of them ever wondered whether the piano being played sounded like a real piano. That's not to ignore the huge benefit we all enjoy in being able to access recorded music at will, but oddly it is at the same time a profoundly anti-musical development. Hence this thread.

[Yomanze]

Piano, organ, cymbals, violin, and natural vocals.

[Light Dependant Resistor]

Comparing real to recorded sound is like watching 'Where Eagles Dare' and comparing that experience to actually infiltrating a top secret Nazi headquarters. It's never going to come close but more importantly, it's not meant to!

Who records the drum part, puts it in the mix, plays it back and says, 'Nah this is no good, doesn't sound like the drum kit is in the room.' No-one. All that gating you get on the drum sound in 1980s recordings, how does that compare to a live drum kit sound? They are trying to make a recording that sounds good when you play it back on your hi-fi in your living room, not replicate a live event.

Frank Zappa examples 2 weeks to develop The Black page showing many decisions about what was right vs not so right , he then rearranged into part 2, which is a little bit different to your reply " doesn't sound like the drum kit in the room" but never the less shows some music composers went to enormous lengths to develop pieces for drum kits. The Live in New York drum sound cannot be mistaken for anything but a live drum kit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Page

Likewise Creams "Toad" and Deep Purples "The Mule" from Live in Japan

""The Black Page #1" is a piece by American composer Frank Zappa known for being extraordinarily difficult to play. Originally written for the drum kit and melodic percussion (as "The Black Page Drum Solo"), the piece was later rearranged in several versions, including the disco "easy teenage New York version" (commonly referred to as "The Black Page #2") and a so-called "new-age version", among others.

Drummer Terry Bozzio said of the piece:

He wrote it, because we had done this 40-piece orchestra gig together and he was always hearing the studio musicians in LA, that he was musing on that, talking about the fear of going into sessions some morning and being faced with "the black page". So he decided to write his "Black Page". Then he gave it to me, and I could play parts of it right away. But it wasn't a pressure thing, it just sat on my music stand and for about 15 minutes every day for 2 weeks, before we would rehearse, I would work on it. And after 2 weeks I had it together and I played it for him. And he said, "Great!", took it home, wrote the melody and the chord changes, brought it back in. And we all started playing it.[1]


"The Black Page Drum Solo/Black Page #1"

One of Zappa's complex, percussion-based compositions featured on Zappa in New York.


On the double live album Zappa in New York (recorded 12/1976, released 3/1978), Zappa noted the "statistical density" of the piece.[2] It is written in common time with extensive use of tuplets, including tuplets inside tuplets. At several points there is a crotchet triplet (sixth notes) in which each beat is counted with its own tuplet of 5, 5 and 6; at another is a minim triplet (third notes) in which the second beat is a quintuplet (actually a tuplet of 7), and the third beat is divided into tuplets of 4 and 5. The song ends with a crotchet triplet composed of tuplets of 5, 5, and 6, followed by two tuplets of 11 in the space of one.[citation needed]

Zappa would re-arrange the song into "The Black Page #2" shortly after his band's mastery of the piece. This second version has a disco beat, but nevertheless retains nearly every metric complexity from #1. One notable difference in this version is that the final set of tuplets feature a rhythmic change and are repeated three times to conclude the song. The 1991 live album Make a Jazz Noise Here includes a so-called "new age version", which incorporates lounge and reggae music. The 1994 album You Can't Do That on Stage Anymore, Vol. 4 featured a version from 1984 that had a ska motif. Both of these versions included guitar solos from Zappa.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e1shNfBjQU

[Macca]

Not sure how this relates to what I wrote Chris. I wasn't talking about recordings of live events.

[anthonyTD]

Frank Zappa examples 2 weeks to develop The Black page showing many decisions about what was right vs not so right , he then rearranged into part 2, which is a little bit different to your reply " doesn't sound like the drum kit in the room" but never the less shows some music composers went to enormous lengths to develop pieces for drum kits. The Live in New York drum sound cannot be mistaken for anything but a live drum kit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Page

Likewise Creams "Toad" and Deep Purples "The Mule" from Live in Japan

""The Black Page #1" is a piece by American composer Frank Zappa known for being extraordinarily difficult to play. Originally written for the drum kit and melodic percussion (as "The Black Page Drum Solo"), the piece was later rearranged in several versions, including the disco "easy teenage New York version" (commonly referred to as "The Black Page #2") and a so-called "new-age version", among others.

Drummer Terry Bozzio said of the piece:

He wrote it, because we had done this 40-piece orchestra gig together and he was always hearing the studio musicians in LA, that he was musing on that, talking about the fear of going into sessions some morning and being faced with "the black page". So he decided to write his "Black Page". Then he gave it to me, and I could play parts of it right away. But it wasn't a pressure thing, it just sat on my music stand and for about 15 minutes every day for 2 weeks, before we would rehearse, I would work on it. And after 2 weeks I had it together and I played it for him. And he said, "Great!", took it home, wrote the melody and the chord changes, brought it back in. And we all started playing it.[1]


"The Black Page Drum Solo/Black Page #1"

One of Zappa's complex, percussion-based compositions featured on Zappa in New York.


On the double live album Zappa in New York (recorded 12/1976, released 3/1978), Zappa noted the "statistical density" of the piece.[2] It is written in common time with extensive use of tuplets, including tuplets inside tuplets. At several points there is a crotchet triplet (sixth notes) in which each beat is counted with its own tuplet of 5, 5 and 6; at another is a minim triplet (third notes) in which the second beat is a quintuplet (actually a tuplet of 7), and the third beat is divided into tuplets of 4 and 5. The song ends with a crotchet triplet composed of tuplets of 5, 5, and 6, followed by two tuplets of 11 in the space of one.[citation needed]

Zappa would re-arrange the song into "The Black Page #2" shortly after his band's mastery of the piece. This second version has a disco beat, but nevertheless retains nearly every metric complexity from #1. One notable difference in this version is that the final set of tuplets feature a rhythmic change and are repeated three times to conclude the song. The 1991 live album Make a Jazz Noise Here includes a so-called "new age version", which incorporates lounge and reggae music. The 1994 album You Can't Do That on Stage Anymore, Vol. 4 featured a version from 1984 that had a ska motif. Both of these versions included guitar solos from Zappa.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e1shNfBjQU