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Thread: Most difficult musical instrument for Hi Fi Systems to reproduce ?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    That's highly debatable. 99% of recordings are not phase-accurate and most speakers are not phase accurate and most rooms have reflections that will put sounds out of phase. If it was really an issue then almost all systems would sound rubbish.
    Regarding tone - yes phase does seem to be relatively unimportant.

    I believe, if I remember correctly, that for audio if an FFT is done, the phase component can be discarded completely, before doing the inverse operation, without affecting the sound significantly. The converse is approximately true for image FFTs.

    However, phase coherence in a multi-channel system is important for spatial localisation.
    Dave

  2. #22
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    I stand by my original choice, i have heard a few systems that do good to seriously good vocals, and Piano, but have never heard a single system that could do a real pipe organ justice!
    The title states "Most difficult instrument for HI-FI systems to reproduce" my next choices would be; a full orchestra on song [due to its incredible dynamic range] followed by a real drum set!
    The sheer power needed alone to reproduce the instruments i have chosen with any credibility would be far more than most home HI-FI Systems could muster.
    Just my ramblings, and all IMHO.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave2010 View Post
    Regarding tone - yes phase does seem to be relatively unimportant.

    I believe, if I remember correctly, that for audio if an FFT is done, the phase component can be discarded completely, before doing the inverse operation, without affecting the sound significantly. The converse is approximately true for image FFTs.

    However, phase coherence in a multi-channel system is important for spatial localisation.
    With 'tone' this is going to be frequency - response dependant. The flatter the FR of the speaker, the more accurate the tone will be to the recording of the instrument, or voice (not the real sound of the instrument or voice as the recording process itself means we are already one step away from that).

    With multi channel I see what you are driving it but I'm not sure how that can be accomplished, wouldn't a multi-channel system suffer the same phase issues as 2 channel - i.e room reflections and loudspeakers and recordings that are not phase-coherent?
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  4. #24
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    I would agree that piano is tricky, as are violins, however I have heard both convincingly reproduced on more than one occasion.

    I have never heard any hi-fi system ever really convincingly reproduce a drum kit. My speakers do get very close, but hearing a busking band in Winchester shopping precinct last year made me realise that even they're still not quite there.
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  5. #25
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    I recorded this in Munich whilst the hi-fi show was on.

    In the flesh this just blew my mind.

    It blew my mind from half a mile away. Once in front of the stage it became apparent that everything at the Munich hi-fi show was a total joke.

    It was so obvious that nothing at Munich was capable of getting even vaguely close.

    Anyone who thinks a domestic hi-fi can get close to this is hugely mistaken.

    Unfortunately the video won't get you there either.

    https://youtu.be/4q2pPjvK3KM

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by User211 View Post
    I recorded this in Munich whilst the hi-fi show was on.

    In the flesh this just blew my mind.

    It blew my mind from half a mile away. Once in front of the stage it became apparent that everything at the Munich hi-fi show was a total joke.

    It was so obvious that nothing at Munich was capable of getting even vaguely close.

    Anyone who thinks a domestic hi-fi can get close to this is hugely mistaken.

    Unfortunately the video won't get you there either.

    https://youtu.be/4q2pPjvK3KM
    Completely agree!

    When you think about it expecting a few moving cones in boxes, electrostatic ribbons in panels, or flat panel speakers controlled by a electrical coils and magnets to re-create the transient response of myriads of instruments, natural, electric, & electronic along with the infinite variations in human voice is really expecting quite a lot, even with the perfect recording medium, replay mechanism, amplifiers, cable etc.
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound, and accepting you get it wrong sometimes.

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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJSki2fly View Post
    Completely agree!

    When you think about it expecting a few moving cones in boxes, electrostatic ribbons in panels, or flat panel speakers controlled by a electrical coils and magnets to re-create the transient response of myriads of instruments, natural, electric, & electronic along with the infinite variations in human voice is really expecting quite a lot, even with the perfect recording medium, replay mechanism, amplifiers, cable etc.
    I think this. Much of it must be about the behaviour of materials at vibration. Consider a reed in a saxophone combined with the effect of the brass horn, compared with the gut or metal violin string amplified by the wooden structure, or the sinew of the human voice box. Asking a plastic or paper cone to simulate this must involve considerable compromises. It's about finding the material that can get as close to possible to the instruments you listen to.

    I can see why some of the high end reviewers ignore rock and dance. How can you define how close the speakers get to the "real" sound when it can only exist amplified and played through speakers anyway. However, as much of what I listen to is that, then it's important to me that it's listenable!

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  8. #28
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    My system pretending. Recorded on a OnePlus 6 mid range phone. A YT video of a YT video.

    It is a mess in there going to tidy the equipment up with some bespoke carpentry at some stage. Not long moved in.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo

  9. #29
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    grand piano and violin at high register and church organ at low. trumpet/cornet too at times
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  10. #30
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    Any one here ever put either a record on or a CD and thought, F++k me! Where did that orchestra/band/singer come from?. I've never mistaken a recording for the real thing. I think perhaps our forefathers were better off in one respect: because they did not have the means to capture music as it was played and to replay that captured music when and where they chose, many more of them learned to play instruments, so that the popular pieces of their day could be realised through piano transcriptions (for example). None of them ever wondered whether the piano being played sounded like a real piano. That's not to ignore the huge benefit we all enjoy in being able to access recorded music at will, but oddly it is at the same time a profoundly anti-musical development. Hence this thread.

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