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Thread: Most difficult musical instrument for Hi Fi Systems to reproduce ?

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyTD View Post
    Aye, me too!

    I was beginning to think that a few posts had lost the jist of the original question (which was pretty fundamental), by relating the 'difficulty' of reproducing an instrument on your system to the PSL's of 'live' instruments, whether individually or grouped together in any way.

    It's fairly obvious that a domestic hi-fi system will have difficulty in producing the sound level of some instruments, and certainly groups or orchestras, especially if electrified, but I don't believe that was what the question was about?
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  2. #42
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    Frank Zappa was notorious in his constant dabbling with splicing guitar solos (his) from one live recording into that of another live performance, if he thought the first was better than the second, but the performance on the second by the backing musicians was superior.

    What he didn't appreciate was that the phase relationship between the two performances, and the consequence on the stereo soundstage, was different: simply splicing a guitar solo from one performance into a second just sounds wrong and artificial.
    Barry

  3. #43
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    But I love it when he does that. And chucks in the drums from a completely different tune. If it's weird then that's how he wanted it. Nothing is on a Zappa record by accident.
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  4. #44
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    But Zappa hated mistakes - I've seen him 'wince' when he has heard one of his fellow musicians play a 'duff' note. He was a perfectionist - but what was perfection to him was not to others, as I have mentioned. His 'splices' sound like splices: different miking, different acoustic and soundstage positioing.

    It is as if someone has pasted a new photograph of a performer over the same in an older photograph that was taken in a different location.
    Barry

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    But I love it when he does that. And chucks in the drums from a completely different tune. If it's weird then that's how he wanted it. Nothing is on a Zappa record by accident.
    I once got a boulder burn on a Zappa record, by accident Only kidding, I would never do that, strictly T shirts only
    I just dropped in, to see what condition my condition was in

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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    But Zappa hated mistakes - I've seen him 'wince' when he has heard one of his fellow musicians play a 'duff' note. He was a perfectionist - but what was perfection to him was not to others, as I have mentioned. His 'splices' sound like splices: different miking, different acoustic and soundstage positioing.

    It is as if someone has pasted a new photograph of a performer over the same in an older photograph that was taken in a different location.
    Or a foreign film dubbed into English. I imagine Zappa would have been well aware of this, but didn't care - quality of the performances trumped everything.
    I just dropped in, to see what condition my condition was in

    T/T: Inspire Monarch, X200 tonearm, Ortofon Quintet Blue. Phono: Project Tube Box CD: Marantz CD6006 (UK Edition); Amp: Musical Fidelity A5 Integrated.
    Speakers: Zu Omen Def, REL T9i subwoofer. Cables: Atlas Equator interconnects, Atlas Hyper 3.0 speaker cables

    T'other system:
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    But Zappa hated mistakes - I've seen him 'wince' when he has heard one of his fellow musicians play a 'duff' note. He was a perfectionist - but what was perfection to him was not to others, as I have mentioned. His 'splices' sound like splices: different miking, different acoustic and soundstage positioing.

    It is as if someone has pasted a new photograph of a performer over the same in an older photograph that was taken in a different location.
    Anything the artist does is artistically valid. I just don't get the point you are making with this. It's like audiophiles banging on about recording quality. Would we really want every recording to be shiny and polished, to be as accurate as possible to real instruments in a real acoustic just so it 'sounds' better on our systems? Not me. The purpose of recorded music is not to make hi-fi systems sound good. Cart before the horse.
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    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Anything the artist does is artistically valid. I just don't get the point you are making with this. It's like audiophiles banging on about recording quality. Would we really want every recording to be shiny and polished, to be as accurate as possible to real instruments in a real acoustic just so it 'sounds' better on our systems? Not me. The purpose of recorded music is not to make hi-fi systems sound good. Cart before the horse.
    Hi Martin,

    As you say music can’t make our systems sound better, unless it is engineered to do so. However some musicians do go to great lengths to get as close as possible to the original so the listener gets as good as possible listening experience. For example Ruggiero Ricci did a stunning recording of Paganini pieces in a studio with high end equipment that was recorded live and direct cut, the result is stunning. Alan Parsons as producer, engineer and musician has said he has always striven to get how it sounds and how the artist wants it sound to the listener on the end result. There are many others who have similar high standards.

    So I think there are musicians who just put it out as it is, and you either get it, like it or don’t and then there are those that refine and polish it up to hope that it gets a better response, and as in my previous examples artists who want the listener to get the most they can from what they put out.

    Sadly though with modern recording techniques a lot of crap is done to make music sound more commercial and airwave friendly, although aspects of that has probably always been done.
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound, and accepting you get it wrong sometimes.

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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJSki2fly View Post
    Hi Martin,

    As you say music can’t make our systems sound better, unless it is engineered to do so. However some musicians do go to great lengths to get as close as possible to the original so the listener gets as good as possible listening experience.
    I think they all do this but aiming for the most accurate and unadulterated recording is just one approach. Many/most artists apply all sorts of studio techniques to get the sound they want us to hear, and that can take the recording a long way from 'accuracy to real instruments'. But all approaches are valid.

    I have the remixed and re-mastered version (SACD) of 'Let It Bleed'. I also have the original CD release. The remix/remastered version sounds 'better'. But I prefer to listen to the original.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  10. #50
    Join Date: Nov 2011

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    I think they all do this but aiming for the most accurate and unadulterated recording is just one approach. Many/most artists apply all sorts of studio techniques to get the sound they want us to hear, and that can take the recording a long way from 'accuracy to real instruments'. But all approaches are valid.

    I have the remixed and re-mastered version (SACD) of 'Let It Bleed'. I also have the original CD release. The remix/remastered version sounds 'better'. But I prefer to listen to the original.
    Yep, I have several versions of Led Zep II and I think the original sounds sonically better or shall we say more enjoyable, even though the later remix CD seems to have more clarity/detail. I do have a few others though where the re-master is an improvement in experience, to my ears anyway.
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound, and accepting you get it wrong sometimes.

    Analog Inputs: Pro-Ject Signature 10 TT & arm, Benz Micro LP-S, Michel Cusis MC, Goldring 2500 and Ortofon Rondo Blue cartridges, Hitachi FT5500 mk2 Tuner

    Digital:- Marantz SA-KI Pearl CD player, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi+ Pro, Buffalo NAS Drive

    Amplification:- AudioValve Sunilda phono stage, Krell KSP-7B pre-amp, Krell KSA-80 power amp

    Output: Wilson Benesch Vector speakers, KLH Ultimate One Headphones

    Cables: Tellurium Q Ultra Black II RCA & Chord Epic 2 RCA, various speaker leads, & links


    I think I am nearing audio nirvana, but don’t tell anyone.

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