should children be returning to full time education in a pandemic?

[Marco]

Indeed, exactly as I interpreted it. Context is everything.

It's amazing what biased minds will find, when they *want* to find it!

Marco.

[Macca]

Clearly referring to the failed presidential run. Not possible to 'interpret it in any other way.

His opponents just don't seem to realise they do themselves no favours with this sort of blatant misrepresentation. It makes them look desperate. And when they accuse Trump of misrepresentation it makes them look like hypocrites too.

Presumably they think they have to fight fire with fire. They're wrong. You play down at Trump's level he'll beat you every time because he's been doing it all his life and he's much better at it.

[Folsom]

No. Until a safe and effective vaccine is produced and is widely adopted, or more effective therapeutics developed, the challenge is to contain the epidemic. There is ample evidence globally that when students return to school or uni without effective preventative measures that a spike in infection occurs soon after. The UK has had one of the poorest global responses to the pandemic but it has managed to "flatten the curve" somewhat. Despite this, we remain in a highly precarious position and it is entirely possible that we could see a return to previous infection levels or higher. We will shortly see the annual increase in morbidity due to flu, pneumonia and other respiratory infections, which stacked upon covid infections will present an unprecedented and overwhelming winter burden on the NHS.

Whilst there are costs and consequences in keeping children from school, the alternative is far more hazardous. Distance learning is not ideal but it is workable. Furthermore, there is no reason why kids or adults should not leave their homes providing that they socially distance and wear masks when in close proximity to other people. I still cannot understand why the public have not yet fully grasped the potential for huge mortality and long term chronic illness that covid presents. Even if it meant that all schoolchildren lost a full year of schooling (a highly unlikely and unnecessary possibility) that would be a modest price to pay for the potential health gains.

It should be noted there's no recorded case of a child giving their parents covid19 to date. And children don't die from it except in very rare incidences; and only children that could easily be killed by other common bugs essentially. It's not a threat to children or the parents of the children if they go to school. The threat is in the absurd curriculums now being taught where they are institutionalizing political movements and making them learn moron-math (that makes them basically have to go to college).

It's not paranoia. It is a highly infectious virus with a relatively high case fatality rate. Also, as we are gradually learning, the disease may be responsible for a plethora of long term chronic morbidity too.

Yes, it is important that kids go back to school, but only when it is safe to do so. Now is not the time.

The full economic costs of the virus are not yet known but will be immense. Many members of this forum are retired or approaching retirement so they will not be paying off the accumulated debt that successive governments have built up over decades and which covid has greatly added to. That will fall to the so called "millenials" and their offspring. The phrase, "the new normal" is widely used but I doubt if many of us appreciate how radically that this pandemic and the ones that will follow, must change the fundamentals of society and the way we live. Frankly, a delayed return to school is to my mind the least of our concerns.

I can't speak for other countries but in the US it's turned out to be a significantly lower death rate than the flu actually, when not counting really bad comorbidities and car accidents etc. The CDC's low estimate is that for every 1 person tested 10 more people have it. I work in health care and I think that's a very low estimate because people with covid19 are not testing positive all day long. Even the antibody tests don't seem very accurate. Anyways for us that's a low end accountable of 60m people, and could easily be so much higher (maybe even twice). And they've also said that only 6% of our 182k deaths are direct covid deaths. That works out to 0.0183% mortality rate.

Also can tell you that hospitals are having way less deaths now, and some that are using the hydroxloie whatever stuff, are having huge success despite the media's claims about it.

Donald Trump has spent much of this year denying the severity of the pandemic and refusing to take a strong leadership role in its containment. Hoping for a good outcome and taking no action to promote one is not helpful it is irresponsible. Actions should be based on evidence informed policy and practice. I have spent my adult life as an economist working in international health. I am always optimistic about outcomes when decisions are based upon evidence and science. I am therefore "a glass is 50% full" type of guy! Warning that poor decisions will lead to poor outcomes is not pessimism it is common sense. Unfortunately, having studied epidemiology I am all too aware of the mechanics of the pandemic. I hope I am wrong but we shall see where we are by spring of next year.

Hogwash. Could Trump have responded earlier? Sure but it's not that simple. The reality is he actually did get ventilators and many things going. Even some of his enemies have conceded to the fact he did in fact deliver on a surprising amount of stuff he claimed. Our "death rate" is no more than combined death rates if you group euro countries together to equal out population. And promote what? Nonsense like masks? Right now it's all political blabber. People in the US think covid will go away after the election and it's no longer useful to anyone politically. We've got bigger issues now.





BTW the current outlook is Trump wins in November by a landslide. People are scared of the riots. People like police. People are fleeing democratic cities, you can tell because they're buying the hell out of everything that isn't there, in real estate. People have become wise to the fact that all the race bating in the news has been a bunch of fictional lies... Democrats are buying guns now. The opposition is the pathetic attempt to blame riots on Trump because "look this is Trumps America, so long as he's president people will riot because BECAUSE". He's a symbol of extremist hate because BECAUSE - no one has any really good reasons for all of this except blind opposition -and even less so a plan for the future. The opposition destroyed themselves with a candidate you can't trust or believe is capable, and didn't address anyone's major concerns at all as of late. They ran the DNC and didn't mention the riots at all, when the people who went were there to hear about that because they're super scared.

[anthonyTD]

Tend to agree with much of the thinking behind your post here Jeremy!

It should be noted there's no recorded case of a child giving their parents covid19 to date. And children don't die from it except in very rare incidences; and only children that could easily be killed by other common bugs essentially. It's not a threat to children or the parents of the children if they go to school. The threat is in the absurd curriculums now being taught where they are institutionalizing political movements and making them learn moron-math (that makes them basically have to go to college).



I can't speak for other countries but in the US it's turned out to be a significantly lower death rate than the flu actually, when not counting really bad comorbidities and car accidents etc. The CDC's low estimate is that for every 1 person tested 10 more people have it. I work in health care and I think that's a very low estimate because people with covid19 are not testing positive all day long. Even the antibody tests don't seem very accurate. Anyways for us that's a low end accountable of 60m people, and could easily be so much higher (maybe even twice). And they've also said that only 6% of our 182k deaths are direct covid deaths. That works out to 0.0183% mortality rate.

Also can tell you that hospitals are having way less deaths now, and some that are using the hydroxloie whatever stuff, are having huge success despite the media's claims about it.



Hogwash. Could Trump have responded earlier? Sure but it's not that simple. The reality is he actually did get ventilators and many things going. Even some of his enemies have conceded to the fact he did in fact deliver on a surprising amount of stuff he claimed. Our "death rate" is no more than combined death rates if you group euro countries together to equal out population. And promote what? Nonsense like masks? Right now it's all political blabber. People in the US think covid will go away after the election and it's no longer useful to anyone politically. We've got bigger issues now.





BTW the current outlook is Trump wins in November by a landslide. People are scared of the riots. People like police. People are fleeing democratic cities, you can tell because they're buying the hell out of everything that isn't there, in real estate. People have become wise to the fact that all the race bating in the news has been a bunch of fictional lies... Democrats are buying guns now. The opposition is the pathetic attempt to blame riots on Trump because "look this is Trumps America, so long as he's president people will riot because BECAUSE". He's a symbol of extremist hate because BECAUSE - no one has any really good reasons for all of this except blind opposition -and even less so a plan for the future. The opposition destroyed themselves with a candidate you can't trust or believe is capable, and didn't address anyone's major concerns at all as of late. They ran the DNC and didn't mention the riots at all, when the people who went were there to hear about that because they're super scared.

[Lawrence001]

4 years old I can understand but an 8 year old should be able to sit and read a book and write an essay unsupervised. Okay I don't have young children but in my own childhood during school holidays we never had any adult supervision. We would read (mostly comics but also proper books - Enid Blyton et al) or play with Lego, or, weather permitting, play cricket or football in the back yard.

I don't really understand what has changed that children of 8 years old need constant parental attention. On a Saturday morning my parents would have a lie in, but we would be up early to watch the children's programmes on TV, we'd boil the kettle and make tea and light the gas grill (required pulling a stool over to the cooker in order to be able to reach) and make toast.

Now parents tell me they cannot sleep in at weekends as the children are in their bedroom at 6 am jumping on the bed and getting them up. We would never in a million years have contemplated doing that! Aside from the threat of physical punishment we also understood that our parents were up early and worked hard in the week and deserved to be left undisturbed on weekends.

Yes most of the time was spent with the younger one leaving the older one to get on with the work set by the school but it's hard to explain new maths to an 8yo and then sit with them to help while you've got a 4yo bored of whatever they're doing.

Sent from my HRY-LX1 using Tapatalk

[Macca]

Yes most of the time was spent with the younger one leaving the older one to get on with the work set by the school but it's hard to explain new maths to an 8yo and then sit with them to help while you've got a 4yo bored of whatever they're doing.

Sent from my HRY-LX1 using Tapatalk

I can appreciate that must be a task requiring far more patience than I have. I do look upon parents with awe I have to say. There is no way I could do it.

[Folsom]

Tend to agree with much of the thinking behind your post here Jeremy!

Thanks. I'm trying to be a little bit pragmatic with everything. I don't want to base my outlook on the validity of statements that are nothing more than a tweet.

[Mikeandvan]

Attitudes towards the threat of Covid-19 vary widely, I visited my brother a few days ago in Wales, he has a family, whilst I just live alone (typical hifi hermit). And I was slighted nonplussed at his and his families reaction to the 'pandemic'. They were extremely vigilant, my brother seemed on edge, as he;d been cooped up for 5 months. Life for myself meanwhile hardly changed during lockdown and since. Catching the train from Hove to Wales I was among the 5% not wearing a face mask, the good thing is people can;t harass you about this as you may be one of the 'special cases'. I should add that during the last week Covid cases in Brighton & Hove number only 12, yes 12, and this is where the first case of Covid was found back in February! Should children go back to school? Should workers go back to the office? Does a bear shit in the woods?

[mad-moon]

Attitudes towards the threat of Covid-19 vary widely, I visited my brother a few days ago in Wales, he has a family, whilst I just live alone (typical hifi hermit). And I was slighted nonplussed at his and his families reaction to the 'pandemic'. They were extremely vigilant, my brother seemed on edge, as he;d been cooped up for 5 months. Life for myself meanwhile hardly changed during lockdown and since. Catching the train from Hove to Wales I was among the 5% not wearing a face mask, the good thing is people can;t harass you about this as you may be one of the 'special cases'. I should add that during the last week Covid cases in Brighton & Hove number only 12, yes 12, and this is where the first case of Covid was found back in February! Should children go back to school? Should workers go back to the office? Does a bear shit in the woods?

this guy proclaims to be a special case too...on a train no mask says he has underlying medical conditions..he looks pretty fit to me..but hey..I could be wrong..

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...tail&FORM=VIRE

[guy]

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...tail&FORM=VIRE

I can feel a "Scouse lives matter" campaign coming on