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Thread: Do speaker/interconnect cables improve soundstage?

  1. #41
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: Middlesex, UK

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    I'm Alex.

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    An amp that actually did this was an EMI 1515, was a bit of a budget thing.
    Spendorman

  2. #42
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Norfolk, UK

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    I'm Rob.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    So it can, under rare situations, add to the signal.
    Yes, but that's not musical signal, or soundstage. Nothing qualitative can be added.
    Main system:
    Ben Duncan Mains Conditioner > Mac mini running Fidelia / Samsung 55Ē TV > Audioquest Crimson USB / QED Reference Optical Quartz > Leema Acoustics Elements DAC > Chord Clearway XLRs > AD Audio bespoke balanced valve buffer stage > Chord Clearway XLRs > Bel Canto Ref500S > Chord Clearway speaker cable > Reiver Acoustics Edingdales > Audioquest SLiP Neutrik Speakon > BK Double Gem sub

  3. #43
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

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    I'm openingabottleofwine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Filterlab View Post
    Yes, but that's not musical signal, or soundstage. Nothing qualitative can be added.
    If you mean nothing of quality can be added, then I would agree with you. But a speaker cable can under some, admittedly extreme circumstances, add demodulated RF interference to the musical signal. This is an error of commission, as distinct from an error of omission.
    Barry

  4. #44
    Join Date: Oct 2008

    Location: Glasgowshire

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    I'm Gary.

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    All equipment can do is bring out whatís on the recording and mastering, to a greater or lesser degree.
    ďIf it ainít on the page it ainít on the stageĒ

    I think a lot of it comes down to noise introduced by kit taking you further from whatís in the recording?
    If good soundstage or any other Hifi metric is there in the first place, the lower the noise and more transparent the equipment is, the closer you get.

    Reduce the noise and added mush, and the good stuff will come out easier.

    Of course itís complicated by the fact itís all subjective; some people may prefer a particular sound, which may not be close to what is in the recording, but no matter the kit all you can do is get closer to the original sound, but never replicate it.

    So why worry, just enjoy what you enjoy and what you have.
    Want better, go for it, but donít expect perfection cos it ainít there.
    Enjoying Hifi 'n stuff.

  5. #45
    Join Date: Feb 2009

    Location: Burgundy, France

    Posts: 55
    I'm Jacques.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gazjam View Post
    All equipment can do is bring out whatís on the recording and mastering, to a greater or lesser degree.
    ďIf it ainít on the page it ainít on the stageĒ

    I think a lot of it comes down to noise introduced by kit taking you further from whatís in the recording?
    If good soundstage or any other Hifi metric is there in the first place, the lower the noise and more transparent the equipment is, the closer you get.

    Reduce the noise and added mush, and the good stuff will come out easier.

    Of course itís complicated by the fact itís all subjective; some people may prefer a particular sound, which may not be close to what is in the recording, but no matter the kit all you can do is get closer to the original sound, but never replicate it.

    So why worry, just enjoy what you enjoy and what you have.
    Want better, go for it, but donít expect perfection cos it ainít there.
    What noise? I donít have any noise on any of my preamps or amps.
    Okay, one of my most transparent preamplifiers with valves has some audible hiss. But it has a great soundstage.
    Just donít believe everything you read.
    And my best tuner also has some residual hiss by the way.
    If it's broke fix it.

  6. #46
    Join Date: Oct 2008

    Location: Aughton, Ormskirk

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    I'm Jerry.

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    Interesting point you make about noise Gary. I dont notice it as a problem, in fact my system is very quiet but I do use powerline adapters. I know these are shunned by the hifi fraternity but its the only solution for me. Perhaps I should experiment with equipment that reduces mush even though I cant hear any.
    Jerry
    Hifi: IPL transmission line floorstanding speakers, Squeezebox Touch, Soncoz SGD1 DAC, DCB1 Pre-amplifier, Croft Series 7 power amp.
    Custom Hifi cables HA10SE headphone amplifier and Hifiman HE-400 headphones.
    AV system: LG 55B7, Denon AVR -x2300w receiver, Quad 12L (front) 11c Centre and 11L rear . Velodyne DD15 subwoofer.

  7. #47
    Join Date: Oct 2008

    Location: Glasgowshire

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    I'm Gary.

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    The noise you DONT hear,
    but stops your kit performing better.
    Think of electronic design engineers with a bit of kit hooked up to a ‘Scope.

    My take is that it’s all about reducing the factors that take away from that original recorded signal.
    Every piece of Hifi equipment does it, the “better” (not necessarily more expensive) does it less.

    @Jaques,
    I wasn’t implying your amps are noisy.
    Mines aren’t either.
    What is it your suggesting I’ve read by the way?

    Subsonic (can only be measured with a scope) kinds of noise....
    the ear doesn’t pick it up as a “thing”, but if it’s there it makes “less good” Hifi equipment not do what the better stuff does to make you enjoy your favourite music.

    Any reduction in the mush that gets in the way of what’s encoded on the CD is a step toward better enjoyment of your favourite music.
    Last edited by Gazjam; 19-09-2020 at 11:18.
    Enjoying Hifi 'n stuff.

  8. #48
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: The Black Country

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    I'm Alan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gazjam View Post
    The noise you DONT hear,.....
    Any reduction in the mush that gets in the way of what’s encoded on the CD is a step toward better enjoyment of your favourite music.
    Any intermodulation distortion (IMD) creates a low level mush that interferes with the transparency of the ultimate sound.
    You don't hear the IMD but it covers up micro detail that gives the open feel to the soundstage.

    We aren't talking much to make the best performing systems worse.
    Firebottle - for the no bottleneck approach.

    I love Hendrix for so many reasons. He was so much more than just a blues guitarist - he played damn well any kind of guitar he wanted. In fact I'm not sure if he even played the guitar - he played music. - Stevie Ray Vaughan

  9. #49
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

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    I'm Martin.

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    Yep, IMD kills everything because unlike THD it's not correlated to the signal. It's just random crap. But if you have THD you will have IMD.
    Current Lash Up:

    *Oppo BDT-101CI* Nelson Pass DCB1 / Krell KSA100 mkII * JM Lab Electra 926 *


    'You fool! To think that your ape-brain could contain the full knowledge of the Krell!'

  10. #50
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: Valley of the Hazels

    Posts: 9,062
    I'm AMusicFanNotAnAudiophile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Covenant View Post
    Interesting point you make about noise Gary. I dont notice it as a problem, in fact my system is very quiet but I do use powerline adapters. I know these are shunned by the hifi fraternity but its the only solution for me. Perhaps I should experiment with equipment that reduces mush even though I cant hear any.
    Most householders are too tight to pay for someone to properly install ethernet cables, and cry when told how much it's going to cost.
    As with telephone extensions, they're happier to run some shit in themselves, and balls up the connections.
    Which is why I don't do domestics

    The powerline things work by modulating RFI over the mains, and it's well above human hearing.
    Your average valve can see it, as can your average transistor.
    If you want to suppress RFI try sticking ferrite clamps everywhere except on your powerline adapters.

    What I said about domestics isn't isn't quite true - I occasionally do domestics, and have some very satisfied customers.
    They got a first class job, and were happy to pay for it.
    They are the exception, rather than the norm.
    Chris



    Common sense isn't anymore!

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