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Thread: Worst Music For Your System

  1. #11
    Join Date: May 2018

    Location: Woking

    Posts: 803
    I'm Chris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haselsh1 View Post
    For my electronic music I tailored my system to have gob fulls of slam and bass propulsive power. I also have a massive stereo sound stage and huge ambience. What I found was that with jazz such as Diana Krall and Tina May, in fact any female vocal and double bass based music, the sound is bloody stunning. Not intentional but good that it has happened.
    Hi Shaun,

    sounds like we have quite similar system preferences. My mid-range is very sweet too and there is sparkle coming from my 'extra' top mounted full range speakers but the swell of the low end and the 'thump' really is the signature of my current system overall. The dual subs have a fair amount to do with this.

    Haha, I'll stick on some Krall when showing the systems capabilities, but just as a reference for mastering/production quality and she's usually off again within a couple of songs. Can't deny the quality of the recordings but the ruddy 'woolyness' of it grinds my gears fairly quickly and I have to offset it with some acid techno, immediately.
    System 1: - Amp - Musical Paradise MP-701 mk2 - Neurochrome 686
    - Source: Audio Technica LP-5 - Custom 6V6 stage - Novafidelity X30 - Soekris 1421 (LPSU) - Custom TDA1541 C3G DAC -
    - Speakers: Martin Logan Prodigy's - Subs: - REL T3's -

    System 2 - Amp: Musical Paradise MP 303/Custom 300B SET - Custom 6SL7 Pre -
    - Source: Pioneer N-30K - SONCOZ SGD1 -
    - Speakers: Loth X BS1's - Sub: REL T3 -

  2. #12
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Brighton, UK.

    Posts: 3,061
    I'm Mike.

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    Surprised you use an LP12 if you listen to electronic dance music a lot, I found a 1210 was better for this, dance music is really quite simple sound wise, I don't think there is a great deal of detail to be rinsed from it, with exception of course, and I found a direct drive suited its propulsive nature.
    Current system 1210 GR. CDP - Meridian G08. Amp -Sugden A21I - Sig. Wharfedale Lintons.

  3. #13
    Join Date: May 2018

    Location: Woking

    Posts: 803
    I'm Chris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeandvan View Post
    Surprised you use an LP12 if you listen to electronic dance music a lot, I found a 1210 was better for this, dance music is really quite simple sound wise, I don't think there is a great deal of detail to be rinsed from it, with exception of course, and I found a direct drive suited its propulsive nature.
    That's where my Audio Technica LP5 comes in Mike, direct drive propulsion all the way! I did have 1210's but had to sell them to fund other projects. For playback the LP5 is practically the same sound signature as my mk2's and the tonearms are very similar too. Oh how I miss them though . . . .

    To be fair the LP12 does keep up quite well but its certainly not the horse for that particular course. Put on some Jazz or Classical though and it makes the LP5 sound like a gramophone . . .

    Oh and here they are (were) . . . .

    System 1: - Amp - Musical Paradise MP-701 mk2 - Neurochrome 686
    - Source: Audio Technica LP-5 - Custom 6V6 stage - Novafidelity X30 - Soekris 1421 (LPSU) - Custom TDA1541 C3G DAC -
    - Speakers: Martin Logan Prodigy's - Subs: - REL T3's -

    System 2 - Amp: Musical Paradise MP 303/Custom 300B SET - Custom 6SL7 Pre -
    - Source: Pioneer N-30K - SONCOZ SGD1 -
    - Speakers: Loth X BS1's - Sub: REL T3 -

  4. #14
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 13,240
    I'm Adrian.

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    Hi Chris

    Your follow up is interesting and is pretty much in alignment with my stars.

    I actually do have a few 12” vinyls which sort of fit into the style of music you listen to ie. Ege Bam Yasi, Finitribe, Nobody, T:Me 0792 - Various which I picked up from a pile of presumably a DJ collection in a Hospiscare. They all have imo been mixed very well, they do have some serious bass, one reason I enjoy listening to them. The system as a whole reproduces them well and enjoyably, it may not be gut wrenching feel it in the stomach like you possibly would in a club, but then I don’t have 1000w amps and stack of 15” drivers with massive bass bins, I think the neighbours in close would complain if I did.

    I take your point about electronically mixed and computer generated music, you really are at the mercy of how the producer mixed it and what/where he was listening to it when he did so. I believe some even go to large clubs/venues to do a mix so they know it will hopefully sound similar in a similar venue in the future, so in this instance I doubt any of us will get close to what was intended with our home systems.

    I think this is also very true of live music, for example let’s take a classic Deep Purple - Made in Japan, widely recognises as one of the better live rock albums of all time. It is in fact a favourite of mine and I was listening only yesterday. There are several issues with replay, to get the scale and sense of auditorium acoustics you have to play it pretty loud imo, pushing over 90dB, and that’s probably not loud enough, although the neighbours certainly won’t like it. Then there is the dynamics of the band, the feeling of the mic’d up kick drum pounding out over the stack sound system, the bass guitar pumping out those famous rhythms, I think you get it what I am saying. So no matter how good I think it sounds, it really is not going to replicate the actual live performance, no matter how good the transcription of it or the quality of the system it is played on. IMO when I listen to something like this I am getting a representation of what was actually recorded, and the feeling and ambience of what I hear is what I enjoy, as well as the musical content. Similarly I think reproducing the scale and grandeur of a full symphony orchestra in full flow is a major challenge to achieve, just listen to Prelude (Sonnenaufgang) Also Sprach Zarathustra, Op. 30, there is huge scale and dynamics with massive low bass at the end form the organ, often completely lost when replayed on many systems, also recording/mixing quality varies greatly affecting replay.

    So what I am trying to say is that bit is not just your particular taste in genre that is affected. In my personal view I have found that if you pick pieces of music to tune your system that have clear well recorded and easily identifiable REAL instruments then you will get the best from you system.

    I use some Jazz (piano, trumpet, drums, upright double bass) Miles Davis - So What(Kind do Blue), Bach Organ music, Eva Cassidy -Fields of Gold and other tracks(I include her voice as an instrument), a good rendition of Vivaldi Four Seasons, a good recording of Beethoven’s 5th symphony. If I am happy with these then I listen to some favourite rock/pop music, 10cc - Worst Band in the World, Supertramp- School, Sinéad O,Conner - Feel So Different, Paul Simon - The Boy In The Bubble, Peter Gabriel - The Rhythm Of The Heat, Ravi Shankar- Tala Rasa Ranga(Portrait of Genius), St Germain - Rose Rouge. I know all these very well, what I mean by that is I can hear the music in my head without it being played if that makes sense, so when I listen to them on my system I known, or think I know, what it should sound like,mat least for me.

    Having set up my system and listened to system changes using the above I have “tuned” it to my liking, as a result I have found that it seems to work well across all genres, although I recognise that very low bass below 35-40hz is not going to happen unless I add a good sub.

    You might want to have a listen to some of the tracks above if you are not familiar with them, you may find them interesting, albeit some a bit old school.

    Cheers Adrian
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound, and accepting you get it wrong sometimes.

    Analog Inputs: Pro-Ject Signature 10 TT & arm, Benz Micro LP-S, Michel Cusis MC, Goldring 2500 and Ortofon Rondo Blue cartridges, Hitachi FT5500 mk2 Tuner

    Digital:- Marantz SA-KI Pearl CD player, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi+ Pro, Buffalo NAS Drive

    Amplification:- AudioValve Sunilda phono stage, Krell KSP-7B pre-amp, Krell KSA-80 power amp

    Output: Wilson Benesch Vector speakers, KLH Ultimate One Headphones

    Cables: Tellurium Q Ultra Black II RCA & Chord Epic 2 RCA, various speaker leads, & links


    I think I am nearing audio nirvana, but don’t tell anyone.

  5. #15
    Join Date: Dec 2008

    Location: East Riding of Yorkshire these days

    Posts: 4,779
    I'm Shaun.

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    Hello Chris. The midband of my current sound system is quite possibly the most realistic I have ever had. OK so that can only be checked using 'real' music with 'real' instruments that are recorded via microphones but it is a good reference point. For electronic music there is no such point of reference or fidelity as let's face it, a lot of stuff these days is 'virtual' or VST and would be inaudible without a PA system or monitor system. This is where the term Hi-Fidelity falls apart because without the reference, what would it be faithful to..?

    My current system bass is purely tailored towards electronic music along the lines of Leftfield, Shpongle, Hallucinogen, Underworld, The Peaking Goddess Collective and many more. You get the picture..? This bass has only been possible by combining my KEF R5's with my Usher R1.5's output. That bloody amplifier has such and amazing low end performance. The mid is as good as I would want it and provided the amp is fully warmed up, the treble is just silky smooth.

    The fact that my system sounds so good with female vocal and string bass is a pure coincidence.

  6. #16
    Join Date: May 2018

    Location: Woking

    Posts: 803
    I'm Chris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJSki2fly View Post
    Hi Chris

    Your follow up is interesting and is pretty much in alignment with my stars.

    I actually do have a few 12” vinyls which sort of fit into the style of music you listen to ie. Ege Bam Yasi, Finitribe, Nobody, T:Me 0792 - Various which I picked up from a pile of presumably a DJ collection in a Hospiscare. They all have imo been mixed very well, they do have some serious bass, one reason I enjoy listening to them. The system as a whole reproduces them well and enjoyably, it may not be gut wrenching feel it in the stomach like you possibly would in a club, but then I don’t have 1000w amps and stack of 15” drivers with massive bass bins, I think the neighbours in close would complain if I did.

    I take your point about electronically mixed and computer generated music, you really are at the mercy of how the producer mixed it and what/where he was listening to it when he did so. I believe some even go to large clubs/venues to do a mix so they know it will hopefully sound similar in a similar venue in the future, so in this instance I doubt any of us will get close to what was intended with our home systems.

    I think this is also very true of live music, for example let’s take a classic Deep Purple - Made in Japan, widely recognises as one of the better live rock albums of all time. It is in fact a favourite of mine and I was listening only yesterday. There are several issues with replay, to get the scale and sense of auditorium acoustics you have to play it pretty loud imo, pushing over 90dB, and that’s probably not loud enough, although the neighbours certainly won’t like it. Then there is the dynamics of the band, the feeling of the mic’d up kick drum pounding out over the stack sound system, the bass guitar pumping out those famous rhythms, I think you get it what I am saying. So no matter how good I think it sounds, it really is not going to replicate the actual live performance, no matter how good the transcription of it or the quality of the system it is played on. IMO when I listen to something like this I am getting a representation of what was actually recorded, and the feeling and ambience of what I hear is what I enjoy, as well as the musical content. Similarly I think reproducing the scale and grandeur of a full symphony orchestra in full flow is a major challenge to achieve, just listen to Prelude (Sonnenaufgang) Also Sprach Zarathustra, Op. 30, there is huge scale and dynamics with massive low bass at the end form the organ, often completely lost when replayed on many systems, also recording/mixing quality varies greatly affecting replay.

    So what I am trying to say is that bit is not just your particular taste in genre that is affected. In my personal view I have found that if you pick pieces of music to tune your system that have clear well recorded and easily identifiable REAL instruments then you will get the best from you system.

    I use some Jazz (piano, trumpet, drums, upright double bass) Miles Davis - So What(Kind do Blue), Bach Organ music, Eva Cassidy -Fields of Gold and other tracks(I include her voice as an instrument), a good rendition of Vivaldi Four Seasons, a good recording of Beethoven’s 5th symphony. If I am happy with these then I listen to some favourite rock/pop music, 10cc - Worst Band in the World, Supertramp- School, Sinéad O,Conner - Feel So Different, Paul Simon - The Boy In The Bubble, Peter Gabriel - The Rhythm Of The Heat, Ravi Shankar- Tala Rasa Ranga(Portrait of Genius), St Germain - Rose Rouge. I know all these very well, what I mean by that is I can hear the music in my head without it being played if that makes sense, so when I listen to them on my system I known, or think I know, what it should sound like,mat least for me.

    Having set up my system and listened to system changes using the above I have “tuned” it to my liking, as a result I have found that it seems to work well across all genres, although I recognise that very low bass below 35-40hz is not going to happen unless I add a good sub.

    You might want to have a listen to some of the tracks above if you are not familiar with them, you may find them interesting, albeit some a bit old school.

    Cheers Adrian
    Thanks Adrian,

    I'm familiar with most of those tracks (I have parents ) some of which are ingrained on my subconscious from before I got to an age to even propose a change of tape/record on the family stereo or in the car!

    A great mix there and Beethoven's 5th is a personal favourite of mine and my dads along with Four Seasons and Kind Of Blue. My dad is a big fan of Organ music too and regularly comes for a listen on my system as it really is only about -6db at 20Hz. I've told him the only way he's going to get that result is with a proper sub but as his system is in their living room (and quite a looker his system is I must say) aesthetically it simply is a no go. I'm working on him though . . . .

    I must say I'm really happy with the overall 'balance' of the system as a whole, although compared to some I suspect it slightly tips the scales more towards low end grunt and 'rich' presentation over twinkly super frequencies . . . but I don't feel its missing much.

    I guess you could say the 'spine' of the system is solid and neutral enough to now be only concerned with little tweaks, tubes, IC's etc. The source/amp/speakers are pretty much sorted and going nowhere. It's the first time I haven't swapped something out or felt the need to try something else, its been that way for a couple of months now, normally I'm itching or pondering the next move within a couple of weeks.

    I remember you referenced a potential house move being on the cards. Unfortunately I'm faced with a similar dilemma in as much as the company that 'built' my new house neglected to actually put any insulation in the loft (where my system is currently situated). In a few weeks they are coming in to rip the top floor apart and rectify their absolutely unforgivable, disgrace of an oversight. (Words cannot even begin to explain how angry I am with them but that's a discussion for my solicitor and another time, anyway).

    I too am worried that it won't go back in the same as it came out, as there will be some structural changes to the walls and acoustic signature of the room. However I've been through a few system relocation's now and although the journey can be long and tedious, I have managed to get there every time. Perseverance, some knowledge and some good luck are required.

    Cheers Adrian,

    Chris
    System 1: - Amp - Musical Paradise MP-701 mk2 - Neurochrome 686
    - Source: Audio Technica LP-5 - Custom 6V6 stage - Novafidelity X30 - Soekris 1421 (LPSU) - Custom TDA1541 C3G DAC -
    - Speakers: Martin Logan Prodigy's - Subs: - REL T3's -

    System 2 - Amp: Musical Paradise MP 303/Custom 300B SET - Custom 6SL7 Pre -
    - Source: Pioneer N-30K - SONCOZ SGD1 -
    - Speakers: Loth X BS1's - Sub: REL T3 -

  7. #17
    Join Date: May 2018

    Location: Woking

    Posts: 803
    I'm Chris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haselsh1 View Post
    Hello Chris. The midband of my current sound system is quite possibly the most realistic I have ever had. OK so that can only be checked using 'real' music with 'real' instruments that are recorded via microphones but it is a good reference point. For electronic music there is no such point of reference or fidelity as let's face it, a lot of stuff these days is 'virtual' or VST and would be inaudible without a PA system or monitor system. This is where the term Hi-Fidelity falls apart because without the reference, what would it be faithful to..?

    My current system bass is purely tailored towards electronic music along the lines of Leftfield, Shpongle, Hallucinogen, Underworld, The Peaking Goddess Collective and many more. You get the picture..? This bass has only been possible by combining my KEF R5's with my Usher R1.5's output. That bloody amplifier has such and amazing low end performance. The mid is as good as I would want it and provided the amp is fully warmed up, the treble is just silky smooth.

    The fact that my system sounds so good with female vocal and string bass is a pure coincidence.
    Hi Shaun,

    yes some good selections there. Definitely on the better produced and more 'musical' side of electronic music. Some Shpongle stuff can really be regarded as modern day works of art (along with the mind bending videos!).

    I'm also a big fan of soundtracks which tend to have a lot of low end information contained within. The first time I played the original Blade Runner soundtrack with a proper subwoofer (or 2!) in the room revealed exactly how much energy and detail was missing from almost any setup I had heard before. Only with the vinyl version though interestingly, I have the digital version in hi-rez 24/96 and the sound is missing some organic excitement from it, no question. That's not the DAC either as I have heard my DAC do some incredible things, its just I believe that particular recording was made for replay on a fully analogue vinyl rig.

    Having said that the new Blade Runner 2049 soundtrack does have the same organic impact as the original one does on vinyl. I'm not even exaggerating when I say the pictures shake on the walls. Incredible ambiance to be found down that low, inaudible frequencies enable you to feel the soundscape. I don't believe a lot of people even know this is possible with a 'home' system, but it is as it sounds like you know too!

    I tend to listen to a lot of stuff from The Orb, Martin Nonstatic, Biosphere, AIR, Boards of Canada, AES Dana, Floating Points, etc but if you really want to hear what is possible with production check out Skee Mask - Compro (24-bit) the thing blows my mind every, single, time.

    That and an album from Connect.Ohm - 9980 . . . . incredible. Scann-Tec - unyt also deserves a special mention.

    Also a big fan of nu-wave synth music (with an 80's vibe) so music from The Midnight, Morgan Willis (Miami Calling is superb), FM84 and a few others.

    For more 'musical' electronic stuff I can thoroughly recommend Tycho, Albrecht La'Brooy, Mogwai (as some electronic/rock crossover), Bonobo.
    Last edited by Opti-cal; 13-08-2020 at 09:35. Reason: additional artists!
    System 1: - Amp - Musical Paradise MP-701 mk2 - Neurochrome 686
    - Source: Audio Technica LP-5 - Custom 6V6 stage - Novafidelity X30 - Soekris 1421 (LPSU) - Custom TDA1541 C3G DAC -
    - Speakers: Martin Logan Prodigy's - Subs: - REL T3's -

    System 2 - Amp: Musical Paradise MP 303/Custom 300B SET - Custom 6SL7 Pre -
    - Source: Pioneer N-30K - SONCOZ SGD1 -
    - Speakers: Loth X BS1's - Sub: REL T3 -

  8. #18
    Join Date: Dec 2008

    Location: East Riding of Yorkshire these days

    Posts: 4,779
    I'm Shaun.

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    Yes Chris loving Bonobo and also Kiasmos along with Trentemoller, Orbital, Infected Mushroom, Futureshock and Younger Brother. I also like a bit of commercial dance like Lasgo and Ian Van Dahl however the other stuff is better with a slightly altered state of mind. The stereo imaging is always impressive when you feel more relaxed and that low frequency stuff that just appears around the floor is just too good. Great sounds, great music, great sounds systems. I'll drink to that.


  9. #19
    Join Date: Dec 2008

    Location: East Riding of Yorkshire these days

    Posts: 4,779
    I'm Shaun.

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    Oh yeah I forgot, Brian Eno's ambient stuff as well. Even the cat sits and listens.


  10. #20
    Join Date: Mar 2017

    Location: Seaford UK

    Posts: 1,861
    I'm Dennis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    So a "better system" in your case Dennis has resulted in a significant loss of musical enjoyment. Not good.
    No, because of a philosophical change in my stance, a paradigm shift in thinking and understanding, of what is going on when we listen to music.

    I described a few months ago how art reflects our inner concerns, feelings, sensibilities, and sensitivities, and most of what we attribute to the art is in fact a conflation of our inner emotions and concerns and the art which may allude to those, however fleetingly or scantly. We project onto the art to varying degrees.

    A golfer seeing a white 1 1/4" piece of paper in the distance, after a swing, may well think that it is his ball, but as he approaches, his objective perception allows him to see what it really is.

    With a sound system as it becomes more faithful to the recording, this allows it to be seen forensically, all the errors and techniques become more evident. A little like examining a beautiful table closely, to find one can see traces of chisel marks on its surface, or other slight flaws.

    In about '72, I had a Parker ball point which had a window in its side to show as the refill revolved, conversion tables from British to SI units. I stuck a tape spool label on the refill and wrote; "Get High", "On Some", "Truth", "Man", each phrase being revealed with one click of the plunger.

    This caused much consternation in the team, ('Shift A') and later ridicule. I remember at that time the track which included the phrase; "They smile in your face . . . . . The Backstabbers", for which I have an empathy, and many associates at that time stated I would agree with.

    So truth has become my pursuit at the expense of comfort zones, these only serving to dissociate one from reality, and which in particular areas often form a basis for group bonding, and resultant dislike of realists.

    But the ability of art to awaken us to perhaps repressed or subconscious but unrecognised feelings can be profound, and very worthwhile, and as we grow so the art has to become more sophisticated.

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