Valve amps, great with Jazz, shit with everything else.

[AJSki2fly]

More likely to be the amplifier than the speakers. Lots of harmonic distortion to give that 'better than real life' sound but once the mix gets busy the associated intermodulation distortion kicks in and it all starts to sound nasty.

I am finding this all a bit ODD to say the least.

I purchased new and owned for many years an Audio Innovations S500 mk1 and it was extremely good, I had it tri-wired by them and I replaced the valves with Genelux Golden Lions as recommended by a dealer, and it sounded superb. Initially driving Snell type Js, (I cannot comment on similarities to ANs Js), and later with KEF Reference model 3.2's (not the easiest of speakers to drive) but it worked fine. I would hasten to add that it sounded good on all genres on both. I actually had one of those silly moments and sold the S500 and other gear which I went onto regret, so much so that a 3 years later I purchased another S500 but pre-owned this time, once again I upgraded the valves with Golden Lions, but this time drove Dali Ikon 6's, and again it sounded very good, however the one area of failing with this combo was restricted placement of the speakers because if not positioned correctly then they over-emphasised the bass.

I am not sure how long you have been listening to it Mike but I would give it several days to a week on other genres before you write the combination off, sometimes it takes time to adjust to a new set, up. If you are still not happy then it might be well worth trying a different speaker, if you want easy to drive then maybe a suitable Tannoy or Impulse H2's, you certainly should get bass from either of those combos IMO.

[Barry]

There is nothing wrong with the Audio Innovations 500 amplifier - it's a very good amplifier.

I don't know about Audio Note loudspeakers or how the driver(s) is(are) loaded, but the AI 500 (factory upgraded to the latest specification) works wonderfully well with horn-loaded speakers (a good example in my experience being the Impulse H2s).

[Thetiminator]

I have 106db horns that are perfect for low powered valve amps. After demo’ing loads from £2k-£40k I’ve found the thread title to be spot on. Wouldn’t have one given...

[Jazid]

My experience is different, but I value timbre, tonality, and image density over forensic ability to tease apart complex music. I like Audio Note and accept their failings because their stuff plays enjoyable sounds that meets my needs. I enjoy lots of other stuff including class d amps, but haven't yet found speakers better for my room and tastes than AN-E.
With 106dB horns I'd be staggered if you could tolerate anything other than class a amps and valve above sand, but maybe Pass labs fits the bill?

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[Mikeandvan]

The problem is both the valve amp and the speakers are not very good. That's why only plinky-plonk sounds any good through them. Plinky plonk will sound good on an Amstrad.

Haha, that's nonsense. I know cos I've tried both, and this combo with jazz is superb

[Mikeandvan]

I don't think I'd be looking at Exposure or Naim to get the best from recordings of limited quality.

A serviced Cambridge A60 or Audiolab 8000A would probably suit, but if you can get away from the idea of an integrated, a Quad 909 with a passive pre-amp would be just the job, offering oodles of refined power! A 606 Mk.II does the same.

Had the 909, found it a bit sedate. I often read that the early Naits 'could really boogie', so thought they might be good, similar with exposure.

[Macca]

Haha, that's nonsense. I know cos I've tried both, and this combo with jazz is superb

You say it is good with jazz but a good amp and speakers will be good with everything.

[Mikeandvan]

I am finding this all a bit ODD to say the least.

I purchased new and owned for many years an Audio Innovations S500 mk1 and it was extremely good, I had it tri-wired by them and I replaced the valves with Genelux Golden Lions as recommended by a dealer, and it sounded superb. Initially driving Snell type Js, (I cannot comment on similarities to ANs Js), and later with KEF Reference model 3.2's (not the easiest of speakers to drive) but it worked fine. I would hasten to add that it sounded good on all genres on both. I actually had one of those silly moments and sold the S500 and other gear which I went onto regret, so much so that a 3 years later I purchased another S500 but pre-owned this time, once again I upgraded the valves with Golden Lions, but this time drove Dali Ikon 6's, and again it sounded very good, however the one area of failing with this combo was restricted placement of the speakers because if not positioned correctly then they over-emphasised the bass.

I am not sure how long you have been listening to it Mike but I would give it several days to a week on other genres before you right the combination off, sometimes it takes time to adjust to a new set, up. If you are still not happy then it might be well worth trying a different speaker, if you want easy to drive then maybe a suitable Tannoy or Impulse H2's, you certainly should get bass from either of those combos IMO.

I'm happy with the system, but as I said, its quite limited in what it can relay, but with jazz its spot on, and quite addictive. So I'll happily keep it, and am just gonna buy another integrated amp and smallish standmounts for the other genres I like. I've room for 2 amps on my rack, the other speakers will just have to sit in a cupboard till I need them.

[AJSki2fly]

I'm happy with the system, but as I said, its quite limited in what it can relay, but with jazz its spot on, and quite addictive. So I'll happily keep it, and am just gonna buy another integrated amp and smallish standmounts for the other genres I like. I've room for 2 amps on my rack, the other speakers will just have to sit in a cupboard till I need them.

I now am completely confused Mike, how can smallish stand mounts possibly give you the bass you describe you want I cannot fathom. Also whether it’s a valve or integrated amp with such speakers is not going to make much difference imo. It really does sound as if the AN Js are the issue here! Has anyone else any other ideas?


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[Opti-cal]

Mike, I get what you are saying re valve amps but I think your issue with them has been compounded by the Audio Note's shortcomings, not the amps.

With the right speakers valve amps can give a powerful, dynamic sound with plenty of bass although admittedly it can be tricky to get right though. The speakers you have are considered superb for acoustic reproduction and indeed Jazz (as you have eluded to). They do place texture and timbre above nearly all else sonic-wise so other important (although less to some people) characteristics of a speakers 'signature' are missing, even compared to a lot of far less expensive examples.

For a lot of people this is okay as they may only listen to the kind of music that the speakers excel with but it does limit your musical genres somewhat.

As with a lot of things hifi its horses for courses due to the limitations of speaker design. I would say the AN's are more 'compromised' than most in the pursuit of convincingly reproducing one or two particular types of music extremely well (maybe better than nearly all others).

As you say if you're willing to swap the speakers out when you feel like it then that's fine but the amp is not the problem here. Get some more well rounded and less 'compromised' speakers and a lot of things missing from the AN's should return, plus, if you choose carefully you might just get a large dose of what the AN's offer too!