Valve amps, great with Jazz, shit with everything else.

[KnuckleDragger]

In post 379 there are errors of thinking.

"I do not think that being a diplomat is anyone job. As stated by Macca"

Incorrect. It was stated by me.

I think that we all should attempt diplomacy because humans differ in sensitivity, and as a humanist I feel that hurting others' feelings is best avoided, the one exception being if they are being deliberately nasty.

I am also a humanist. I also agree deliberately hurting peoples feelings should be avoided. However I do not attempt to deliberately hurt peoples feelings. You are creating a strawman argument.

I do not see sensitivity as in any way childish or infantile, but I do see deliberate indifference to others' feelings as just that.

You are entitled to your opinion. However I believe you are incorrect. With your comment about giving praise.
Praise should be earned. Not just given as a consolation prize for not coming first. I am not indifferent to peoples feelings. Your assertion about being indifferent to others feelings is just way off the mark. May I ask you where you got "childish or infantile" from. As it was not from me.

This is just getting bloody well out of hand. I cannot believe what I am being forced to respond to. Please, just get back on subject.

[Barry]

Please, just get back on subject.

I agree, this thread drift is not helping to solve Mike's problems with his system.

[Pharos]

I think that our own inaccurate thinking should be addressed by each of us, and that it is fairly evident when it occurs, but I agree strongly that Mike's concerns must have primacy. I apologise Mike.

[walpurgis]

For a now rather long thread, no real direction seems to have been established, things appear as they were at the start. Unresolved.

(although there has in my opinion been entertaining input, if unintentional)

[Pharos]

Let's all pile round to Mike's!

[Mikeandvan]

Let's all pile round to Mike's!

Hifi rescue? Could we make this fly with the BBC?

[Mikeandvan]

For a now rather long thread, no real direction seems to have been established, things appear as they were at the start. Unresolved.

(although there has in my opinion been entertaining input, if unintentional)

I wouldn't say that, at the least I've learnt a bit about valves, sound is improving bit by bit, although I wouldn't rule out a change of direction, currently trying to decide which amp to keep, then I may try some other speakers in time.

[fatmarley]

If you could play with EQ and find out the problem frequency that could help with possible speaker choices.

[Mikeandvan]

If you could play with EQ and find out the problem frequency that could help with possible speaker choices.

Yes I keep meaning to get one of those room measurements thingys!

[AJSki2fly]

If you could play with EQ and find out the problem frequency that could help with possible speaker choices.

Good suggestion Matt, gave me thought.

Mike, if you have a laptop, then you could download REW onto it, https://www.roomeqwizard.com, it is free, then all you need is a simple microphone(possibly) to plug into your laptop. You place the microphone exactly where your head would be, best on top of a stack of cushions. You also need a 3.5mm jack to two RCA's to connect form the headphone output to your amp, so it needs to be long enough to do this and have the microphone where you sit.

REW enables you to run a frequency sweep through your system from 20hz to 20Khz or more if you choose, (it is configurable), as it does so the microphone feeds the out put into the software which then plots the dB measurement across the range. This is very useful as it will clearly show peaks and troughs at different frequencies. So for example if you are actually getting enhanced high frequencies these would show in sudden peaks. Obviously initially you will not know it it is speaker design or positioning, or amplifier, or siting position. So you choose one of these and modify it, for example move the speakers away from the walls and take another sweep, you then compare that with the previous one and see if there is any major change, good to bad, if bad move them back to be nearer the walls, and redo, check if good or bad, and then decide whether to move them back to original or towards it. You keep doing so until you minimise peaks and troughs. Once you have the back and forward position optimised, repeat with moving them in and out, try and avoid shifting them forward of back when you do this. Once again take repeated measurements until you minimise peaks and troughs.

Before your the first sweep turn the volume output down on the laptop, and the volume on the amp down to a low level first, if it is very quiet then increase the amp volume to about 1/3. You can then use the REW calibration feature to ensure the output levels are right and the microphone is recording at the right level.

Once you have calibrate and done your speaker position sweeps as above then I would suggest swapping the amplifier, leaving the speakers where you have the best response across the frequencies, do a sweep measurement and then you can compare, I suspect you will not see much difference here, but I could be wrong. Stick with the amp that looks best for now.

Now to find the optimum listening spot so you can now move the microphone forward, say initially 3', and measure, run the frequency sweep and see if it is better(flatter) or worse) peaks and troughs) increase. if it is worse then move it back 1' 6", and try again. You repeat going back and forward until you find the optimum position, it should only take 3 or 4 goes.

Once you have done the above, you could try re-checking the speaker position but only will small movements not more than 3" back or forward, at a time and similarly in or out form the sidewalls. This may make a subtle improvement.

I know the above sounds a bit tedious, but it is the one way of physically seeing how equipment and its position will affect the sound. When you take the first measurement I would expect you to have peaks and troughs all over the place, do not panic over this, it is to be expected. Remember you are just using this as a tool to try and minimise those peaks and troughs, you will never achieve a flat frequency response across 20-20Khz, and it would probably sound awful if you did. You definitely can expect to see a roll off at the lower frequencies(dB drop), probably around 45-50hz, that's to be expected. Higher up the frequency range I would expect a drop in dB at around 13-14Khz. It is best to focus on peaks and troughs from 45hz to about 5Khz, and any obvious
high peaks above, which may be your harshness issues, "The midrange frequencies, also referred to as the midrange, is typically the frequency range between 300Hz and 5,000Hz. This is the range where the majority of audio content is in most music, movies and TV shows.".

If you get to find the best combination, you could try some subtle room treatments as suggest before, cushions in the corners(stop high end reflections, echo), blankets at the side of speakers on walls. As you do so measure and compare with you final frequency sweep, you will see the impact of these and what works and what does not.

If cannot or you do not want to spend time with the REW software, then you can do the same process but using your ears and listening to one or two very familiar tracks, Pick something that musically does not have too much going on and is well recorded, the test listening track I sent you would be a good place to start.