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Thread: Valve amps, great with Jazz, shit with everything else.

  1. #41
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Brighton, UK.

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    I'm Mike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawrence001 View Post
    Mike did you ever try the Kef 104/2? The "conjugate load" crossover means they are a reasonable load for a 40wpc EL34 amp and they are not laid back like the Model 2s you had.

    I used them with my opera valve amp and they rocked with Deep purple and the like as well as jazz. I'd try that first before getting a SS amp. Hopefully you could still keep them if you still didn't like the valve sound, they work well with Class A SS too.

    Just watch out for the foam rot in the woofers. If you can't find one already sorted, the single wire version is much easier to fix as just the doughnuts are foam, the surrounds are rubber in those, but they are both foam in the biwire version.

    Sent from my HRY-LX1 using Tapatalk
    Great, they're cheap! Will keep my eyes peeled.
    Current system. NAS Interspace/Garrard 401/Jelco 750 or Roksan Nima /Nagaoka MP 200/Graham Slee Era V. CDP - Mission PCM 7000. Amp - Audio Innovations S500. Harmon Kardon HK6500. Audio Note J's/Chario syntar towers. QED XT40 speaker cable/Straight wire interconnects.

  2. #42
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Brighton, UK.

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    I'm Mike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Although £650 in 1989 is only £1850 in today's money, not £4k, I do take your point. They weren't giving them away. For comparison a Radford Revival STA25, which I would suggest is superior to the AI in every respect, is currently £2800.
    Stop it, I ain't got three grand to spare!
    Current system. NAS Interspace/Garrard 401/Jelco 750 or Roksan Nima /Nagaoka MP 200/Graham Slee Era V. CDP - Mission PCM 7000. Amp - Audio Innovations S500. Harmon Kardon HK6500. Audio Note J's/Chario syntar towers. QED XT40 speaker cable/Straight wire interconnects.

  3. #43
    Join Date: Mar 2016

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    I want my dinner now, but I also want to finish the cd of Horace silver 'Cape verdean blues'! This set up is doing something seriously right, but not everything.
    Current system. NAS Interspace/Garrard 401/Jelco 750 or Roksan Nima /Nagaoka MP 200/Graham Slee Era V. CDP - Mission PCM 7000. Amp - Audio Innovations S500. Harmon Kardon HK6500. Audio Note J's/Chario syntar towers. QED XT40 speaker cable/Straight wire interconnects.

  4. #44
    Join Date: Mar 2017

    Location: Seaford UK

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    I'm Dennis.

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    IMO if a speaker 'does some things right', this is a result of; oddities of a speaker, in which resultantly they are not having great demands placed on them, and the personal subjective education.

    I agree that a good speaker should do all genres, by definition, and think that jazz places only certain demands on a speaker; it is very tympanic, plinky plonk piano, drums, and sax bursts, other genres, classical with sustained strings place quite other demands on a speaker.

  5. #45
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Barnet, london UK

    Posts: 1,953
    I'm Adam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pharos View Post
    IMO if a speaker 'does some things right', this is a result of; oddities of a speaker, in which resultantly they are not having great demands placed on them, and the personal subjective education.

    I agree that a good speaker should do all genres, by definition, and think that jazz places only certain demands on a speaker; it is very tympanic, plinky plonk piano, drums, and sax bursts, other genres, classical with sustained strings place quite other demands on a speaker.
    Hilarious
    I dunno what sort of Jazz you listen to but it sounds Bloody horrid to Me!
    Lots of generalisations in this thread, very amusing.

    If a speaker and amp combo only does 1 type of music well then something is very wrong.
    Imho Dump the system and buy something that’s going to give you satisfaction across many musical styles (even the horror show of plinky plonk described!)

    The title of the thread is surely not even To be taken seriously?
    Mike, Get out and listen to some proper matched systems with valve amps, when you hear
    What’s possible then ask the question (Thread title) again..
    Last edited by WESTLOWER; 30-07-2020 at 23:01.
    "lack of passion is fatal"


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  6. #46
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

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    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeandvan View Post
    I want my dinner now, but I also want to finish the cd of Horace silver 'Cape verdean blues'! This set up is doing something seriously right, but not everything.



    This sounds good and 'hi-fi' through my laptop speakers, which are toppy and have absolutely no bass. It's no test of anything. You'd have to try to put a system together that made a mess of it.

    I understand what you are saying about the big JVC sounding 'sterile' but the job of the amp is to amplify, not change the sound. The room and the loudspeakers will do enough of that already.

    I don't know the JVC, never had one, never heard one, so no point in me getting into specifics on that particular amp. But you don't need valves to get good results from all types if music, likewise you don't need solid state to do that either, There are just good and bad amplifiers, the amplifying device doesn't matter, unless for some reason (very big room, very insensitive speakers) you need hundreds of watts.

    No-one wants 'sterile' but the idea that valves are some sort of universal solution to that is just wrong. No-one makes music to sound sterile, no-one listens to their newly finished album album in the studio and says 'This sounds sterile but fuck it, let's put it out anyway.' But studios use very good speakers for making that assessment.

    If I were you I'd go back to square one, start with the speakers as- assuming a digital source - the speakers far and away have the most influence on the sound quality. Don't piss about in the shallow end, get absolutely the best speakers (and yes, I'm talking measurements here since they do matter a lot as this thread demonstrates) you can afford, then sort out the amplifier.
    Current Lash Up:

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  7. #47
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Brighton, UK.

    Posts: 1,529
    I'm Mike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WESTLOWER View Post
    Hilarious
    I dunno what sort of Jazz you listen to but it sounds Bloody horrid to Me!
    Lots of generalisations in this thread, very amusing.

    If a speaker and amp combo only does 1 type of music well then something is very wrong.
    Imho Dump the system and buy something that’s going to give you satisfaction across many musical styles (even the horror show of plinky plonk described!)

    The title of the thread is surely not even To be taken seriously?
    Mike, Get out and listen to some proper matched systems with valve amps, when you hear
    What’s possible then ask the question (Thread title) again..
    "Newly serviced S500 for sale, sounds divine, but just spotted something rather special and can't resist".
    Current system. NAS Interspace/Garrard 401/Jelco 750 or Roksan Nima /Nagaoka MP 200/Graham Slee Era V. CDP - Mission PCM 7000. Amp - Audio Innovations S500. Harmon Kardon HK6500. Audio Note J's/Chario syntar towers. QED XT40 speaker cable/Straight wire interconnects.

  8. #48
    Join Date: Apr 2012

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    I'm Geoff.

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    Bin it all and get Bose!
    "when common sense, logic and plausibility are excluded. All that remain are foolishness and lies"

  9. #49
    Join Date: Nov 2011

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    I'm Adrian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    Bin it all and get Bose!
    Personally I’d go for a pair of Apple Homepods and stream to them, you can put where you want as they optimise their output by taking room measurements and you can feed the vinyl/TT to it via an RPI, simples less boxes and lots and lots of bass. Other benefits are sell all the other gear and subscribe to lifelong streaming service And have money over, and have more room in the lounge.
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    Pro-Ject Signature 10 TT & arm, Benz Micro LP-S & Michel Cusis MC cartridge, Furutech AG-12-R4 High Performance Phono Cable, LFD MMC special phono stage, Rothwell MCX SUT, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi to Beresford Caiman SEG DAC, Sony 3d blu-Ray for CDs to Caiman SEG, ALLNIC T1500 MKII SET 300B amp, Wilson Benesch Vector speakers and JBL L100 Century's , Chord Epic speaker leads, & signature links, the Eccose Conductor CA1 cd to pre, I think I am at audio nirvana, but donít tell anyone

  10. #50
    Join Date: Feb 2008

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    I'm NotTakingLifeTooSeriouslyTheseDays.

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    Just listening to this in my workshop, on a pair of full range Jordan drivers, in sealed boxes, [around 85db] driven by a Mullard 3 watt per channel single ended valve amp, sounds great!
    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post



    This sounds good and 'hi-fi' through my laptop speakers, which are toppy and have absolutely no bass. It's no test of anything. You'd have to try to put a system together that made a mess of it.

    I understand what you are saying about the big JVC sounding 'sterile' but the job of the amp is to amplify, not change the sound. The room and the loudspeakers will do enough of that already.

    I don't know the JVC, never had one, never heard one, so no point in me getting into specifics on that particular amp. But you don't need valves to get good results from all types if music, likewise you don't need solid state to do that either, There are just good and bad amplifiers, the amplifying device doesn't matter, unless for some reason (very big room, very insensitive speakers) you need hundreds of watts.

    No-one wants 'sterile' but the idea that valves are some sort of universal solution to that is just wrong. No-one makes music to sound sterile, no-one listens to their newly finished album album in the studio and says 'This sounds sterile but fuck it, let's put it out anyway.' But studios use very good speakers for making that assessment.

    If I were you I'd go back to square one, start with the speakers as- assuming a digital source - the speakers far and away have the most influence on the sound quality. Don't piss about in the shallow end, get absolutely the best speakers (and yes, I'm talking measurements here since they do matter a lot as this thread demonstrates) you can afford, then sort out the amplifier.
    "Today scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
    Nikola Tesla


    When wireless is perfectly applied the whole earth will be converted into a huge brain, which in fact it is, all things being particles of a real and rhythmic whole... and the instruments through which we shall be able to do this will be amazingly simple compared with our present telephone. A man will be able to carry one in his vest pocket. Nikola Tesla, 1926
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