Valve amps, great with Jazz, shit with everything else.

[Haselsh1]

"Audio Innovations was founded by Peter Qvortrup and Erik Andersson in 1984" I met Peter in 1987 when I purchased mine, very nice chap and helpful.

https://www.dagogo.com/audio-innovations-first-audio/

http://tubeamps.co.uk/history

I knew there was a connection somewhere.

[Marco]

It's in sorting office, can't face that on a saturday!

Have you got it now, Mike?

Marco.

[Mikeandvan]

Its really kitchen and lounge in one big room, I'll post a pic tomorrow. New valves haven't gotten rid of the stridency in upper treble, may'be I should try other speakers.

[Lawrence001]

Saw all this discussion about trying different valves, it sounds to me like the issue goes beyond that. Whether it's the room or just the sound you like is hard to say without being there and having a play.

If you could get someone round with a selection of cables it may be a good start as I've tuned many systems that way. What are you using? Sorry if it's already been discussed above.

Little trick if you use the grilles on, I have taped a single sheet of toilet paper over the tweeters (as in separate a single layer of paper off a single sheet) and it can take the edge off. Not a permanent solution but it can show you what a bit of treble attenuation can achieve. It can turn out to be the high mids rather than the treble that really grate though on horns/guitars etc.

If you're playing them with the grilles off just putting them back on can help. Some speakers are voiced with the grilles on.

Sent from my HRY-LX1 using Tapatalk

[Mikeandvan]

Saw all this discussion about trying different valves, it sounds to me like the issue goes beyond that. Whether it's the room or just the sound you like is hard to say without being there and having a play.

If you could get someone round with a selection of cables it may be a good start as I've tuned many systems that way. What are you using? Sorry if it's already been discussed above.

Little trick if you use the grilles on, I have taped a single sheet of toilet paper over the tweeters (as in separate a single layer of paper off a single sheet) and it can take the edge off. Not a permanent solution but it can show you what a bit of treble attenuation can achieve. It can turn out to be the high mids rather than the treble that really grate though on horns/guitars etc.

If you're playing them with the grilles off just putting them back on can help. Some speakers are voiced with the grilles on.

Sent from my HRY-LX1 using Tapatalk

Yeh I'm thinking speakers now, next step get them checked I reckon, I'm close to Audio note, but their communication puts me off, I've a feeling I'll be left with a large bill and being pushed towards buying stupidly priced cables. Cables are Van damme oc-ofc, known for being quite warm I think. I'll try the tissue thing thanks! Should add that I also tried the Audio note Ks before the Js and they were even worse with the treble.

[AJSki2fly]

Yeh I'm thinking speakers now, next step get them checked I reckon, I'm close to Audio note, but their communication puts me off, I've a feeling I'll be left with a large bill and being pushed towards buying stupidly priced cables. Cables are Van damme oc-ofc, known for being quite warm I think. I'll try the tissue thing thanks! Should add that I also tried the Audio note Ks before the Js and they were even worse with the treble.

Hi Mike, don’t know if you have read this review, it is long but there is some VERY interesting info on the AN Js in comparison the the original Snell Js, they are NOT the same beast! Peter Qvortrup, of AN brought the rights to Snell designs, and early one changed the rear port design and tune them for corner positioning in the room, the article explains why. As most will concur this goes against what is considered right for loudspeaker design.

So if they are critical on room placement to get them to sound right then this may be the issue you are facing in your room. Have a read and see how it affects your current placement.

Sorry to have to say this but the other valves will and can have direct impact on the sound, in fact possibly more so as the are effectively the first stage amplification, so any issues in these(top end harshness) will be amplified even further by the EL34s. I would replace them with Golden Lions, you will then have a known good base to experience the with speakers of any type.

By the way do you get the same top end stridency you describe (I take this to mean harsh top end, crashy/splashy cymbals for instance?) with the Soro. If it is there with both amps then the issue is with the AN Js.

It a shame we don’t live closer, then you could pop over and we could try them with my amp and yours in my lounge, we could probably get to the bottom of it then.

If you fancy a trip to Seaton to find out it’s only about, 150 miles, you are more than welcome

[tapid]

Have you thought about room treatment Mike ?. Just recently bought absorber/ diffuser panel myself ( gik ) gonna probably get some more.
Very helpful effort Adrian btw

[Mikeandvan]

Hi Mike, don’t know if you have read this review, it is long but there is some VERY interesting info on the AN Js in comparison the the original Snell Js, they are NOT the same beast! Peter Qvortrup, of AN brought the rights to Snell designs, and early one changed the rear port design and tune them for corner positioning in the room, the article explains why. As most will concur this goes against what is considered right for loudspeaker design.

So if they are critical on room placement to get them to sound right then this may be the issue you are facing in your room. Have a read and see how it affects your current placement.

Sorry to have to say this but the other valves will and can have direct impact on the sound, in fact possibly more so as the are effectively the first stage amplification, so any issues in these(top end harshness) will be amplified even further by the EL34s. I would replace them with Golden Lions, you will then have a known good base to experience the with speakers of any type.

By the way do you get the same top end stridency you describe (I take this to mean harsh top end, crashy/splashy cymbals for instance?) with the Soro. If it is there with both amps then the issue is with the AN Js.

It a shame we don’t live closer, then you could pop over and we could try them with my amp and yours in my lounge, we could probably get to the bottom of it then.

If you fancy a trip to Seaton to find out it’s only about, 150 miles, you are more than welcome

Thanks Adrian, the issue with both the Soro and S500, already changed the valves in the S500 to Gold lions, a bit of a difference, a general warmer sound. I am about to change my room around so I have more flexibility with positioning the Js, might do it today if it keeps on raining like this! I've never really thought about cymbals too much, its always been the wind instruments in jazz which have been a real pain for me, on the high notes of course.

[Mikeandvan]

Have you thought about room treatment Mike ?. Just recently bought absorber/ diffuser panel myself ( gik ) gonna probably get some more.
Very helpful effort Adrian btw

I'm sceptical that they'd make much of a difference! Have yours? My sofa is right up against the wall, can't really have it any other way.

[AJSki2fly]

Thanks Adrian, the issue with both the Soro and S500, already changed the valves in the S500 to Gold lions, a bit of a difference, a general warmer sound. I am about to change my room around so I have more flexibility with positioning the Js, might do it today if it keeps on raining like this! I've never really thought about cymbals too much, its always been the wind instruments in jazz which have been a real pain for me, on the high notes of course.

Aha, I think we may be getting closer to the issue you are experiencing.

If you would advise me of a pieces of music that you experience this, specific Artists and Tracks and I will have a listen, don't tell me what or where it is you hear any issues, it would be best if it is on CD or digital and then I can source it, but you never know I may have a copy on LP anyway. I will listen very carefully on my system and try and be as analytical and critical as possible, and see if I find any issues, I know it is a bit subjective but at least you would have a view, if I hear distortion or harshness of any sorts I will honestly report it to you. My Wilson Benesch speaker are very revealing of dodgy recordings or mixes, I have a few that I find annoying.

Just for info I looked up the frequency ranges of wind instruments:- see https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...119164746.app2

The AN J's employ a 8" driver that does the mid-range and bass, I believe it is generally considered quite a hard ask for such a driver to cope with both low-mid and upper mid at the same time. I believe the tweeters will be dealing with much higher frequencies. Most reviews actually say that the mid-range from AN J's is pretty good, so it would be interesting to know exactly what and when you experience the harshness you describe. Certain instruments are notoriously difficult to reproduce accurately so maybe that has something to do with it.

Thinking about it, it could be that you could have golden ears, in other words you detect pitch and its accuracy very naturally so anything reproduced slightly off becomes annoying or dissonant to you, it is not unknown. Some people and musicians have what is called natural pitch perception, that is they instinctively know when something is in tune or slightly out of tune, others have to develop this ability with time singing, playing instruments and listening to others.

Cheers

Adrian

Also someone else posted this, I watched this afternoon, there was a couple of things I was not fully aware of, and you may find it really helpful