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Thread: Valve amps, great with Jazz, shit with everything else.

  1. #181
    Join Date: Mar 2016

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    I'm Mike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    It certainly won't be the Van Dammes - not sure about warm sounding, but they're not bright that's for sure. More neutral, I'd say. Mains regenerator sounds fine, what about mains leads - are you using anything decent there (I don't mean expensive), or just standard 'kettle leads'?

    Defo check the valves, as IME a lot of modern production ones, especially Chinese and Russian varieties, can sound a little 'edgy'.

    Marco.
    Mains leads? Well, just the standard one that came with the 1210 gr, the Mission cd player has a captive lead, the Soro looks like it has a decent thick lead, 'Rendar' brand. I got the amp from Steve - Bourney, pretty sure he said valves were changed, obvs to better ones.
    Current system - Garrard 401/Mayware F4 in progress! 1210 GR/Jelco 750/Nagaoka MP 200/Graham Slee Era V. CDP - Mission PCM 7000. Amp - Audio Innovations S500. Audio Note J's / QED XT40 speaker cable/Straight wire interconnects.

  2. #182
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

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    Ok, I don't think your mains cables are an issue, and the Mission is noted for being quite a smooth sounding player. I'd defo check the valves in your amp, and note what make they are, and also what type?

    You really want quality NOS valves in any decent valve amp, not currently produced stuff, as the difference can significant. Do me a favour and take some pics of what you've got, so I can see what we're dealing with

    Marco.
    "Count your age by friends, not years. Count your life by smiles, not tears” - John Lennon.

    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace" - Jimi Hendrix.

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  3. #183
    Join Date: Mar 2017

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    I certainly agree with you Marco re capacity, but of course economics is a factor.

  4. #184
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    Absolutely, however often expensive amps don't have the money spent *where it matters most*, and that's 'under the hood', as it were, or in the case of valve amps, over the hood. Instead, it's wasted on superfluous fripperies, such as ridiculously lavish [I'd say bling] casings, or control knobs constructed from solid billets of brass, in order to provide 'badge-snob' users with the comforting feeling of knowing that they own something 'reassuringly expensive'...

    Therefore, the 'economics' side of things, in many instances, could ably be addressed, if some manufacturers focused on what ultimately matters, and spent more on making their products SOUND as good as possible, within the available budget, than pandering to the superficial snobs who obsess over bling, and would rather own a piece of vulgar 'jewellery', than an effective tool for reproducing music!

    <Rant over>

    Marco.
    "Count your age by friends, not years. Count your life by smiles, not tears” - John Lennon.

    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace" - Jimi Hendrix.

    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

  5. #185
    Join Date: Feb 2008

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    There is of course sound advice in your ramblings, Unfortunetly in many instances manufacturers are torn between producing the equipment they want and know they should be making, and pandering to those who can actualy afford the kit, therefore, and more often than not, many manufacturers end up producing products that are a far cry from what they intended, something i have to say i too became very uncomfortable with a long time ago, hence i decided to try and stay true to myself, and just produce equipment that i Felt people would want to own for the right reason, i can tell you though staying true to yourself comes at a hefty cost, which is why many originaly enthusiastic and talented designers, and engineers end up taking as you quite rightly point out; the bling route
    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post

    Therefore, the 'economics' side of things, in many instances, could ably be addressed, if some manufacturers focused more on what ultimately matters most and spent the money on making their products SOUND as good as possible, within the available budget, rather than pandering to the superficial idiots who obsess over bling and would rather own a piece of vulgar 'jewellery', than an effective tool for reproducing music!

    Marco.
    "Today scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
    Nikola Tesla


    When wireless is perfectly applied the whole earth will be converted into a huge brain, which in fact it is, all things being particles of a real and rhythmic whole... and the instruments through which we shall be able to do this will be amazingly simple compared with our present telephone. A man will be able to carry one in his vest pocket. Nikola Tesla, 1926
    www.tubedistinctions.co.uk

  6. #186
    Join Date: Dec 2008

    Location: East Riding of Yorkshire

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    The best valves for me over the years I've been involved with them were 300B's in PP mode. I then left valves behind only to return again to reinvent the wheel. In 2016 I returned to valves yet again with a Prima Luna Dialogue Premium power which lasted until maybe six months ago when I ditched valves yet again. That power amp was equipped with EL34's; it just didn't cut it with my main choice of music. So here I am with an Usher R1.5 power that gives amazing guts and punch but nowhere near the warmth of the Prima Luna. I now have amazing bass definition and superb stereo imagery but a thinner, less warm sound. I may have to consider a swap of preamp. Reinventing the wheel again..? Maybe.



    Valve amps from the past include: Audion Sterling ETSE, Audion 300B SE, Icon Audio Stereo 20PP, World Audio Design 300B PP, Yarland 300B SE.

    The best valve make I have ever encountered were Gold Lion Genalex.

    All my own findings of course.

  7. #187
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Brighton, UK.

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    I'm Mike.

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    Got the Audio Innovations S500 back in now, sounding good so far.
    Current system - Garrard 401/Mayware F4 in progress! 1210 GR/Jelco 750/Nagaoka MP 200/Graham Slee Era V. CDP - Mission PCM 7000. Amp - Audio Innovations S500. Audio Note J's / QED XT40 speaker cable/Straight wire interconnects.

  8. #188
    Join Date: Mar 2017

    Location: Seaford UK

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    I'm Dennis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyTD View Post
    There is of course sound advice in your ramblings, Unfortunetly in many instances manufacturers are torn between producing the equipment they want and know they should be making, and pandering to those who can actualy afford the kit, therefore, and more often than not, many manufacturers end up producing products that are a far cry from what they intended, something i have to say i too became very uncomfortable with a long time ago, hence i decided to try and stay true to myself, and just produce equipment that i Felt people would want to own for the right reason, i can tell you though staying true to yourself comes at a hefty cost, which is why many originaly enthusiastic and talented designers, and engineers end up taking as you quite rightly point out; the bling route
    The problem extends beyond Hi-Fi, it is a malaise of capitalism.

    We have an increasingly divided society, between the extremely rich and the poor. I argue that the former do not have to perceive with any great intensity, and probably live in a comfort zone.

    The working classes - those who work for a living, including designers, and especially in industrial design and more so in Hi-Fi, spend hours scrutinising their designs. You must have been with people who work in the Hi-Fi industry and are constantly and obsessively trying to perceive differences, and improvements. I bet Lawrence Dickie is such, and I know T. de P. is.

    Their raison d'etre is the move forward, and this takes hours of devotion and pain to get even an incremental move forward.

    This, I guess, is an entirely different mindset from that of the extremely wealthy, and so, having designed and improved it, the marketeers now have to persuade people to buy it, but the improvement is probably only minimal. The marketeers then, along with the production guys, work out how to sell it. Hence often bling.

    Dry subdued and subtle realism is not eye catching/attention grabbing in any area of life, people want excitement and sexy bang. Look at the currency of commodities amongst celebrities.

  9. #189
    Join Date: Feb 2008

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    I'm NotTakingLifeTooSeriouslyTheseDays.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pharos View Post
    The problem extends beyond Hi-Fi, it is a malaise of capitalism.

    We have an increasingly divided society, between the extremely rich and the poor. I argue that the former do not have to perceive with any great intensity, and probably live in a comfort zone.

    The working classes - those who work for a living, including designers, and especially in industrial design and more so in Hi-Fi, spend hours scrutinising their designs. You must have been with people who work in the Hi-Fi industry and are constantly and obsessively trying to perceive differences, and improvements. I bet Lawrence Dickie is such, and I know T. de P. is.

    Their raison d'etre is the move forward, and this takes hours of devotion and pain to get even an incremental move forward.

    This, I guess, is an entirely different mindset from that of the extremely wealthy, and so, having designed and improved it, the marketeers now have to persuade people to buy it, but the improvement is probably only minimal. The marketeers then, along with the production guys, work out how to sell it. Hence often bling.

    Dry subdued and subtle realism is not eye catching/attention grabbing in any area of life, people want excitement and sexy bang. Look at the currency of commodities amongst celebrities.
    "Today scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
    Nikola Tesla


    When wireless is perfectly applied the whole earth will be converted into a huge brain, which in fact it is, all things being particles of a real and rhythmic whole... and the instruments through which we shall be able to do this will be amazingly simple compared with our present telephone. A man will be able to carry one in his vest pocket. Nikola Tesla, 1926
    www.tubedistinctions.co.uk

  10. #190
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Chorley, Lancs

    Posts: 2,261
    I'm Mike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Absolutely, however often expensive amps don't have the money spent *where it matters most*, and that's 'under the hood', as it were, or in the case of valve amps, over the hood. Instead, it's wasted on superfluous fripperies, such as ridiculously lavish [I'd say bling] casings, or control knobs constructed from solid billets of brass, in order to provide 'badge-snob' users with the comforting feeling of knowing that they own something 'reassuringly expensive'...

    Therefore, the 'economics' side of things, in many instances, could ably be addressed, if some manufacturers focused on what ultimately matters, and spent more on making their products SOUND as good as possible, within the available budget, than pandering to the superficial snobs who obsess over bling, and would rather own a piece of vulgar 'jewellery', than an effective tool for reproducing music!

    <Rant over>

    Marco.
    One of the reasons i ended up buying a PrimaLuna, they don't seem scared to have you look under the hood as it were.


    As the late Colonel Sanders once said
    "I'm too drunk to taste this chicken!!"

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