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Thread: Valve amps, great with Jazz, shit with everything else.

  1. #571
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 30,978
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sailor View Post

    The graph posted by Martin, which he described as 'the alps' was incorrectly interpreted. That is not the speakers' frequency response, which if it was I agree is hopeless, it is the individual response of each drive unit and it is the summed response that will represent the freq. response.
    It was the speakers frequency response, although not the exact same speaker Mike has, it was a much more expensive Audionote speaker.

    Here it is again in case anyone wants to check. You want figure 4. https://www.stereophile.com/content/...r-measurements

    Atkinson's been measuring speakers for decades, aside from a hump in the bass due to the method he uses his measurements are usually very close to those done in a proper anechoic chamber or with a Kilppel NFS

    I wouldn't describe it as 'hopeless' although it's certainly poor compared to what you could buy for the same money ($12K back in 2006).

    Anyway, as you were.
    Current Lash Up:

    *Audiolab 6000CDT* Topping E30 * Philips 22AH380 pre-amp * NAD C320BEE power amp * JM Lab Electra 926 *

  2. #572
    Join Date: Apr 2011

    Location: cheltenham

    Posts: 709
    I'm matt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    It was the speakers frequency response, although not the exact same speaker Mike has, it was a much more expensive Audionote speaker.

    Here it is again in case anyone wants to check. You want figure 4. https://www.stereophile.com/content/...r-measurements

    Atkinson's been measuring speakers for decades, aside from a hump in the bass due to the method he uses his measurements are usually very close to those done in a proper anechoic chamber or with a Kilppel NFS

    I wouldn't describe it as 'hopeless' although it's certainly poor compared to what you could buy for the same money ($12K back in 2006).

    Anyway, as you were.
    12k for an 8" 2-way with a wonky frequency response - bargain

  3. #573
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Brighton, UK.

    Posts: 1,943
    I'm Mike.

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    Put a faux marble slab under my s500 last week, and felt how hot it was today, and I could be wrong but it seems a fair bit cooler, does this sound right?
    Current system - Garrard 401/Mayware F4 in progress! 1210 GR/Jelco 750/Nagaoka MP 200/Graham Slee Era V. CDP - Mission PCM 7000. Amp - Audio Innovations S500. Audio Note J's / QED XT40 speaker cable/Straight wire interconnects.

  4. #574
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Brighton, UK.

    Posts: 1,943
    I'm Mike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sailor View Post
    Hi Mike, I started reading your thread a week ago and thought you may resort to a hand grenade to really sort out the problem

    I was going to suggest you use a pair of headphones as a reference, which effectively removes the room's acoustic signature and will allow you to hear the rest of your components. Perhaps something for you to consider if you get 'stuck' again.

    Your AN speakers are an unusual approach which has some merit. By utilising the room corners no Baffle Step Compensation is required in the XO design. BSC always robs a few dB's from the speakers sensitivity. 3 dB saved is the same as upgrading to an amp of twice the power.

    The corner placement also, via boundary reinforcement, enhances bass and permits more perceived bass from flea power amps. It also removes some but not all of the problems associated with strong early refections. It is a brave approach, which any designer worth his salt will understand. The vast bulk of speakers are tending towards easy to market narrow baffle designs, not everybody has corners available nor are they drawn to relatively plain 'unattractive' boxes.

    To be clear I am saying you have a good pair of speakers which are worth persevering with.

    The graph posted by Martin, which he described as 'the alps' was incorrectly interpreted. That is not the speakers' frequency response, which if it was I agree is hopeless, it is the individual response of each drive unit and it is the summed response that will represent the freq. response.

    Marco linked to a review on your speakers. I think he should stick to listening impressions and not try explain the technical side of the design. Below is a copy/paste of where I stopped reading!

    "What else, you ask? The spacing between woofer and tweeter is too large to create a cohesive top-to-bottom sound, and mating an 8-inch woofer to a 1-inch tweeter means that the midrange canít work properly. After all, most of the rest of the industry is of the view that an 8-inch woofer canít negotiate the upper midrange while also producing ample enough bottom-end"

    The photos of your room indicate some acoustic treatment is necessary. You are renting but any treatment installed can be relocated to your next place if you move. Acoustics play a bigger part than most realise. A square room will need more work than a more friendly oblong room with better length/width ratio.
    Sorry, just noticed this, thanks. My listening room is not really square, well sort of, it has the kitchen adjoining it, same room, but the lounge part is square, and then another smaller square - the kitchen adjoins it. Of course the speakers are placed in the corners of one side of the square lounge. I do get quite a few different results with standing in different parts of the room including the kitchen. At the moment my initial results haven't changed much. The set up is good with sparse music like jazz and some rock, but not so good with more congested stuff, like 60s stones, and once again the treble can bit shrieky on both wind instruments, and also scratchy gutair. So a few examples - John Martyn was pleasing, but SOft machine not so much, and with some music it can all get a bit mushy. But it has its moments of joy, Scott Walkers 'Tilt' LP is excellent, as is some Coltrane stuff. The set up may be too revealing for me, as my tastes are quite broad, I think this is a set up ideal for sparse acoustic music for instance. But to honest, I'm getting a bit now, so starting to enjoy more these kinds oft things.
    Current system - Garrard 401/Mayware F4 in progress! 1210 GR/Jelco 750/Nagaoka MP 200/Graham Slee Era V. CDP - Mission PCM 7000. Amp - Audio Innovations S500. Audio Note J's / QED XT40 speaker cable/Straight wire interconnects.

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