Valve amps, great with Jazz, shit with everything else.

[Mikeandvan]

It certainly won't be the Van Dammes - not sure about warm sounding, but they're not bright that's for sure. More neutral, I'd say. Mains regenerator sounds fine, what about mains leads - are you using anything decent there (I don't mean expensive), or just standard 'kettle leads'?

Defo check the valves, as IME a lot of modern production ones, especially Chinese and Russian varieties, can sound a little 'edgy'.

Marco.

Mains leads? Well, just the standard one that came with the 1210 gr, the Mission cd player has a captive lead, the Soro looks like it has a decent thick lead, 'Rendar' brand. I got the amp from Steve - Bourney, pretty sure he said valves were changed, obvs to better ones.

[Marco]

Ok, I don't think your mains cables are an issue, and the Mission is noted for being quite a smooth sounding player. I'd defo check the valves in your amp, and note what make they are, and also what type?

You really want quality NOS valves in any decent valve amp, not currently produced stuff, as the difference can significant. Do me a favour and take some pics of what you've got, so I can see what we're dealing with

Marco.

[Pharos]

I certainly agree with you Marco re capacity, but of course economics is a factor.

[Marco]

Absolutely, however often expensive amps don't have the money spent *where it matters most*, and that's 'under the hood', as it were, or in the case of valve amps, over the hood. Instead, it's wasted on superfluous fripperies, such as ridiculously lavish [I'd say bling] casings, or control knobs constructed from solid billets of brass, in order to provide 'badge-snob' users with the comforting feeling of knowing that they own something 'reassuringly expensive'...

Therefore, the 'economics' side of things, in many instances, could ably be addressed, if some manufacturers focused on what ultimately matters, and spent more on making their products SOUND as good as possible, within the available budget, than pandering to the superficial snobs who obsess over bling, and would rather own a piece of vulgar 'jewellery', than an effective tool for reproducing music!

<Rant over>

Marco.

[anthonyTD]

There is of course sound advice in your ramblings, Unfortunetly in many instances manufacturers are torn between producing the equipment they want and know they should be making, and pandering to those who can actualy afford the kit, therefore, and more often than not, many manufacturers end up producing products that are a far cry from what they intended, something i have to say i too became very uncomfortable with a long time ago, hence i decided to try and stay true to myself, and just produce equipment that i Felt people would want to own for the right reason, i can tell you though staying true to yourself comes at a hefty cost, which is why many originaly enthusiastic and talented designers, and engineers end up taking as you quite rightly point out; the bling route

Therefore, the 'economics' side of things, in many instances, could ably be addressed, if some manufacturers focused more on what ultimately matters most and spent the money on making their products SOUND as good as possible, within the available budget, rather than pandering to the superficial idiots who obsess over bling and would rather own a piece of vulgar 'jewellery', than an effective tool for reproducing music!

Marco.

[Haselsh1]

The best valves for me over the years I've been involved with them were 300B's in PP mode. I then left valves behind only to return again to reinvent the wheel. In 2016 I returned to valves yet again with a Prima Luna Dialogue Premium power which lasted until maybe six months ago when I ditched valves yet again. That power amp was equipped with EL34's; it just didn't cut it with my main choice of music. So here I am with an Usher R1.5 power that gives amazing guts and punch but nowhere near the warmth of the Prima Luna. I now have amazing bass definition and superb stereo imagery but a thinner, less warm sound. I may have to consider a swap of preamp. Reinventing the wheel again..? Maybe.



Valve amps from the past include: Audion Sterling ETSE, Audion 300B SE, Icon Audio Stereo 20PP, World Audio Design 300B PP, Yarland 300B SE.

The best valve make I have ever encountered were Gold Lion Genalex.

All my own findings of course.

[Mikeandvan]

Got the Audio Innovations S500 back in now, sounding good so far.

[Pharos]

There is of course sound advice in your ramblings, Unfortunetly in many instances manufacturers are torn between producing the equipment they want and know they should be making, and pandering to those who can actualy afford the kit, therefore, and more often than not, many manufacturers end up producing products that are a far cry from what they intended, something i have to say i too became very uncomfortable with a long time ago, hence i decided to try and stay true to myself, and just produce equipment that i Felt people would want to own for the right reason, i can tell you though staying true to yourself comes at a hefty cost, which is why many originaly enthusiastic and talented designers, and engineers end up taking as you quite rightly point out; the bling route

The problem extends beyond Hi-Fi, it is a malaise of capitalism.

We have an increasingly divided society, between the extremely rich and the poor. I argue that the former do not have to perceive with any great intensity, and probably live in a comfort zone.

The working classes - those who work for a living, including designers, and especially in industrial design and more so in Hi-Fi, spend hours scrutinising their designs. You must have been with people who work in the Hi-Fi industry and are constantly and obsessively trying to perceive differences, and improvements. I bet Lawrence Dickie is such, and I know T. de P. is.

Their raison d'etre is the move forward, and this takes hours of devotion and pain to get even an incremental move forward.

This, I guess, is an entirely different mindset from that of the extremely wealthy, and so, having designed and improved it, the marketeers now have to persuade people to buy it, but the improvement is probably only minimal. The marketeers then, along with the production guys, work out how to sell it. Hence often bling.

Dry subdued and subtle realism is not eye catching/attention grabbing in any area of life, people want excitement and sexy bang. Look at the currency of commodities amongst celebrities.

[anthonyTD]

The problem extends beyond Hi-Fi, it is a malaise of capitalism.

We have an increasingly divided society, between the extremely rich and the poor. I argue that the former do not have to perceive with any great intensity, and probably live in a comfort zone.

The working classes - those who work for a living, including designers, and especially in industrial design and more so in Hi-Fi, spend hours scrutinising their designs. You must have been with people who work in the Hi-Fi industry and are constantly and obsessively trying to perceive differences, and improvements. I bet Lawrence Dickie is such, and I know T. de P. is.

Their raison d'etre is the move forward, and this takes hours of devotion and pain to get even an incremental move forward.

This, I guess, is an entirely different mindset from that of the extremely wealthy, and so, having designed and improved it, the marketeers now have to persuade people to buy it, but the improvement is probably only minimal. The marketeers then, along with the production guys, work out how to sell it. Hence often bling.

Dry subdued and subtle realism is not eye catching/attention grabbing in any area of life, people want excitement and sexy bang. Look at the currency of commodities amongst celebrities.

[Jac Hawk]

Absolutely, however often expensive amps don't have the money spent *where it matters most*, and that's 'under the hood', as it were, or in the case of valve amps, over the hood. Instead, it's wasted on superfluous fripperies, such as ridiculously lavish [I'd say bling] casings, or control knobs constructed from solid billets of brass, in order to provide 'badge-snob' users with the comforting feeling of knowing that they own something 'reassuringly expensive'...

Therefore, the 'economics' side of things, in many instances, could ably be addressed, if some manufacturers focused on what ultimately matters, and spent more on making their products SOUND as good as possible, within the available budget, than pandering to the superficial snobs who obsess over bling, and would rather own a piece of vulgar 'jewellery', than an effective tool for reproducing music!

<Rant over>

Marco.

One of the reasons i ended up buying a PrimaLuna, they don't seem scared to have you look under the hood as it were.