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Thread: Valve amps, great with Jazz, shit with everything else.

  1. #391
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Brighton, UK.

    Posts: 3,100
    I'm Mike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJSki2fly View Post
    Good suggestion Matt, gave me thought.

    Mike, if you have a laptop, then you could download REW onto it, https://www.roomeqwizard.com, it is free, then all you need is a simple microphone(possibly) to plug into your laptop. You place the microphone exactly where your head would be, best on top of a stack of cushions. You also need a 3.5mm jack to two RCA's to connect form the headphone output to your amp, so it needs to be long enough to do this and have the microphone where you sit.

    REW enables you to run a frequency sweep through your system from 20hz to 20Khz or more if you choose, (it is configurable), as it does so the microphone feeds the out put into the software which then plots the dB measurement across the range. This is very useful as it will clearly show peaks and troughs at different frequencies. So for example if you are actually getting enhanced high frequencies these would show in sudden peaks. Obviously initially you will not know it it is speaker design or positioning, or amplifier, or siting position. So you choose one of these and modify it, for example move the speakers away from the walls and take another sweep, you then compare that with the previous one and see if there is any major change, good to bad, if bad move them back to be nearer the walls, and redo, check if good or bad, and then decide whether to move them back to original or towards it. You keep doing so until you minimise peaks and troughs. Once you have the back and forward position optimised, repeat with moving them in and out, try and avoid shifting them forward of back when you do this. Once again take repeated measurements until you minimise peaks and troughs.

    Before your the first sweep turn the volume output down on the laptop, and the volume on the amp down to a low level first, if it is very quiet then increase the amp volume to about 1/3. You can then use the REW calibration feature to ensure the output levels are right and the microphone is recording at the right level.

    Once you have calibrate and done your speaker position sweeps as above then I would suggest swapping the amplifier, leaving the speakers where you have the best response across the frequencies, do a sweep measurement and then you can compare, I suspect you will not see much difference here, but I could be wrong. Stick with the amp that looks best for now.

    Now to find the optimum listening spot so you can now move the microphone forward, say initially 3', and measure, run the frequency sweep and see if it is better(flatter) or worse) peaks and troughs) increase. if it is worse then move it back 1' 6", and try again. You repeat going back and forward until you find the optimum position, it should only take 3 or 4 goes.

    Once you have done the above, you could try re-checking the speaker position but only will small movements not more than 3" back or forward, at a time and similarly in or out form the sidewalls. This may make a subtle improvement.

    I know the above sounds a bit tedious, but it is the one way of physically seeing how equipment and its position will affect the sound. When you take the first measurement I would expect you to have peaks and troughs all over the place, do not panic over this, it is to be expected. Remember you are just using this as a tool to try and minimise those peaks and troughs, you will never achieve a flat frequency response across 20-20Khz, and it would probably sound awful if you did. You definitely can expect to see a roll off at the lower frequencies(dB drop), probably around 45-50hz, that's to be expected. Higher up the frequency range I would expect a drop in dB at around 13-14Khz. It is best to focus on peaks and troughs from 45hz to about 5Khz, and any obvious
    high peaks above, which may be your harshness issues, "The midrange frequencies, also referred to as the midrange, is typically the frequency range between 300Hz and 5,000Hz. This is the range where the majority of audio content is in most music, movies and TV shows.".

    If you get to find the best combination, you could try some subtle room treatments as suggest before, cushions in the corners(stop high end reflections, echo), blankets at the side of speakers on walls. As you do so measure and compare with you final frequency sweep, you will see the impact of these and what works and what does not.

    If cannot or you do not want to spend time with the REW software, then you can do the same process but using your ears and listening to one or two very familiar tracks, Pick something that musically does not have too much going on and is well recorded, the test listening track I sent you would be a good place to start.
    Thanks Adrian, it does sound tedious, think I'll just use my ears! Where do I put the cushions? In the ceiling or the floor or both?
    Current system 1210 GR. CDP - Meridian G08. Amp -Sugden A21I - Sig. Wharfedale Lintons.

  2. #392
    Join Date: Mar 2017

    Location: Seaford UK

    Posts: 1,861
    I'm Dennis.

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    You could purchase a 33 band graphic, (which is what I am considering, partly to educate my ears, but also tweek), and then sell it when your done.

  3. #393
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 13,267
    I'm Adrian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeandvan View Post
    Thanks Adrian, it does sound tedious, think I'll just use my ears! Where do I put the cushions? In the ceiling or the floor or both?
    Try placing a pillows up in the corners, behind you first. You can check the effect before and after by clapping your hands to hear the echo. Do the same with blanket/towels hung on walls next to speakers. When it’s deadened a bit have a listen to some music to decide what you do or don’t like about the change.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound, and accepting you get it wrong sometimes.

    Analog Inputs: Pro-Ject Signature 10 TT & arm, Benz Micro LP-S, Michel Cusis MC, Goldring 2500 and Ortofon Rondo Blue cartridges, Hitachi FT5500 mk2 Tuner

    Digital:- Marantz SA-KI Pearl CD player, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi+ Pro, Buffalo NAS Drive

    Amplification:- AudioValve Sunilda phono stage, Krell KSP-7B pre-amp, Krell KSA-80 power amp

    Output: Wilson Benesch Vector speakers, KLH Ultimate One Headphones

    Cables: Tellurium Q Ultra Black II RCA & Chord Epic 2 RCA, various speaker leads, & links


    I think I am nearing audio nirvana, but don’t tell anyone.

  4. #394
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Brighton, UK.

    Posts: 3,100
    I'm Mike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJSki2fly View Post
    Try placing a pillows up in the corners, behind you first. You can check the effect before and after by clapping your hands to hear the echo. Do the same with blanket/towels hung on walls next to speakers. When it’s deadened a bit have a listen to some music to decide what you do or don’t like about the change.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Any tips for keeping pillows in the corners?
    Current system 1210 GR. CDP - Meridian G08. Amp -Sugden A21I - Sig. Wharfedale Lintons.

  5. #395
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 13,267
    I'm Adrian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeandvan View Post
    Any tips for keeping pillows in the corners?
    Nails , only joking as you are trying it out temporarily how about getting a broom and a stool so you can wedged the broom under the pillow, or you could try using some drawing pins.

    Instead of pillows you could get some scrap material and cut it into roughly 3' * 3' * 3' equilateral triangles and then pin these up in the corners like a drape, this should stop the high end reflections as well.

    Be interesting to know how you find it.
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound, and accepting you get it wrong sometimes.

    Analog Inputs: Pro-Ject Signature 10 TT & arm, Benz Micro LP-S, Michel Cusis MC, Goldring 2500 and Ortofon Rondo Blue cartridges, Hitachi FT5500 mk2 Tuner

    Digital:- Marantz SA-KI Pearl CD player, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi+ Pro, Buffalo NAS Drive

    Amplification:- AudioValve Sunilda phono stage, Krell KSP-7B pre-amp, Krell KSA-80 power amp

    Output: Wilson Benesch Vector speakers, KLH Ultimate One Headphones

    Cables: Tellurium Q Ultra Black II RCA & Chord Epic 2 RCA, various speaker leads, & links


    I think I am nearing audio nirvana, but don’t tell anyone.

  6. #396
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Brighton, UK.

    Posts: 3,100
    I'm Mike.

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    Got a turntable connected now, not the best set up, but enough to hear that The Buzzcocks probably never featured in any of the reviews of either these amps or the ANJs
    Current system 1210 GR. CDP - Meridian G08. Amp -Sugden A21I - Sig. Wharfedale Lintons.

  7. #397
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 13,267
    I'm Adrian.

    Default

    I think acoustically the Buzzcocks were more about raw noise and feeling rather than tonal supremacy


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound, and accepting you get it wrong sometimes.

    Analog Inputs: Pro-Ject Signature 10 TT & arm, Benz Micro LP-S, Michel Cusis MC, Goldring 2500 and Ortofon Rondo Blue cartridges, Hitachi FT5500 mk2 Tuner

    Digital:- Marantz SA-KI Pearl CD player, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi+ Pro, Buffalo NAS Drive

    Amplification:- AudioValve Sunilda phono stage, Krell KSP-7B pre-amp, Krell KSA-80 power amp

    Output: Wilson Benesch Vector speakers, KLH Ultimate One Headphones

    Cables: Tellurium Q Ultra Black II RCA & Chord Epic 2 RCA, various speaker leads, & links


    I think I am nearing audio nirvana, but don’t tell anyone.

  8. #398
    Join Date: Mar 2017

    Location: Seaford UK

    Posts: 1,861
    I'm Dennis.

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    I wouldn't rate any punk era for SQ, they were rebelling against the prog rock finesse.

  9. #399
    Join Date: Sep 2013

    Location: North Island New Zealand

    Posts: 1,757
    I'm Chris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pharos View Post
    I wouldn't rate any punk era for SQ, they were rebelling against the prog rock finesse.
    Although other music in the punk era still occurred, and some has good SQ. ie Dire straits first album.

  10. #400
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 13,267
    I'm Adrian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Light Dependant Resistor View Post
    Although other music in the punk era still occurred, and some has good SQ. ie Dire straits first album.
    Try some XTC or Comsat Angels albums��
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound, and accepting you get it wrong sometimes.

    Analog Inputs: Pro-Ject Signature 10 TT & arm, Benz Micro LP-S, Michel Cusis MC, Goldring 2500 and Ortofon Rondo Blue cartridges, Hitachi FT5500 mk2 Tuner

    Digital:- Marantz SA-KI Pearl CD player, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi+ Pro, Buffalo NAS Drive

    Amplification:- AudioValve Sunilda phono stage, Krell KSP-7B pre-amp, Krell KSA-80 power amp

    Output: Wilson Benesch Vector speakers, KLH Ultimate One Headphones

    Cables: Tellurium Q Ultra Black II RCA & Chord Epic 2 RCA, various speaker leads, & links


    I think I am nearing audio nirvana, but don’t tell anyone.

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