Grounding boxes?

[Macca]

I have often said; that every perceived, and therefore repeatable diffrence heard in audio replay, from whatever the cause, can be tested for, if you know where to look, and how to test it, i think we are starting to undertand that not all that glitters is gold, hence there is a need to look elsewhere to find the reason why some things not currently understood, can cause the affects we can clearly hear.
A...

First of all you have to establish beyond reasonable doubt that we can 'clearly hear them'. That doesn't seem to have been done yet with regard to these boxes.

[anthonyTD]

Of course!

First of all you have to establish beyond reasonable doubt that we can 'clearly hear them'.

[Folsom]

First of all you have to establish beyond reasonable doubt that we can 'clearly hear them'. That doesn't seem to have been done yet with regard to these boxes.

I'm adamant about the reality of the devices being antenna... but I would never deny you can hear the effect. Your asking the question in such a way you'd want proof you can hear it to then investigate an objective improvement (that you won't find). What's the point?

[Macca]

I'm adamant about the reality of the devices being antenna... but I would never deny you can hear the effect. Your asking the question in such a way you'd want proof you can hear it to then investigate an objective improvement (that you won't find). What's the point?

because it seems to me that there's no point in trying to determine what causes the effect until it's been established that there is an effect to begin with.

I believe it has been shown that the Entreq box, or rather the cable that attaches it, can act as an antennae and pick up RF. But it's a jump to say that RF has any discernible effect on what we hear coming out of the speakers or headphones.

The logical approach, it seems to me, would be to test if people can actually hear a difference, and once that's been established beyond reasonable doubt, then proceed with trying to work out why.

there's no point spending money on the device unless it does something that is actually audible, regardless of what it is that it does. It may have properties that can be measured, but are still not audible, just like any other item of hi-fi equipment.

[Gazjam]

If someone get the chance to hear one first without putting any readies down, and they think its an improvement, why shouldn't they buy one?
Theory be damned if someone thinks it sounds better to them, go for it.

No need for a feasibility study?

NOT to be bought without hearing though I'd say!

[AJSki2fly]

because it seems to me that there's no point in trying to determine what causes the effect until it's been established that there is an effect to begin with.

I believe it has been shown that the Entreq box, or rather the cable that attaches it, can act as an antennae and pick up RF. But it's a jump to say that RF has any discernible effect on what we hear coming out of the speakers or headphones.

The logical approach, it seems to me, would be to test if people can actually hear a difference, and once that's been established beyond reasonable doubt, then proceed with trying to work out why.

there's no point spending money on the device unless it does something that is actually audible, regardless of what it is that it does. It may have properties that can be measured, but are still not audible, just like any other item of hi-fi equipment.

I tend to agree with you Martin, I remember there was a similar very long thread on the same subject about grounding boxes which divided people greatly. I was going to use a wine box and make one up myself with said crystals etc, and various ferro-magnetic materials, I have a list somewheres, and try it out to see if there was any improvement, or even deterioration for that matter. I had forgotten all about doing it until this thread.

[Macca]

If someone get the chance to hear one first without putting any readies down, and they think its an improvement, why shouldn't they buy one?
Theory be damned if someone thinks it sounds better to them, go for it.

No need for a feasibility study?

NOT to be bought without hearing though I'd say!

Yes, if it's a big difference I'd agree. But if it is a subtle difference, something nebulous like 'wider soundstage' I'd still be cautious that the effect was not psychological. If it is psychological you'll find out down the line, after you spent the money, because it won't be a persistent effect. You'll unplug the contraption one day and realise that nothing has changed.

[Folsom]

Yes, if it's a big difference I'd agree. But if it is a subtle difference, something nebulous like 'wider soundstage' I'd still be cautious that the effect was not psychological. If it is psychological you'll find out down the line, after you spent the money, because it won't be a persistent effect. You'll unplug the contraption one day and realise that nothing has changed.

I know many people who lived with them after buying a bunch of them and accumulating as many as they could use, then one day removing all of them after building up their army. When they removed them all at once to verify claims against them they liked the sound better and didn't put them back in!

[Gazjam]

Yes, if it's a big difference I'd agree. But if it is a subtle difference, something nebulous like 'wider soundstage' I'd still be cautious that the effect was not psychological. If it is psychological you'll find out down the line, after you spent the money, because it won't be a persistent effect. You'll unplug the contraption one day and realise that nothing has changed.

Oh aye, absolutely.
There's definitely a Psychological aspect to this, all I'm saying is there's no hard and fast single rule for whether it "works".

A lot of variables, and human perception is sure one of them.

[WullieD20]

You'll unplug the contraption one day and realise that nothing has changed.

A very valid point IMHO.
So many times (especially with cables), I have borrowed kit that doesn't sound as if it is offering much of an improvement . . . until such time (after keeping it for a day or three) I unplug it and reverse the system to my original component(s), only to discover that it doesn't sound as good as it did before I reverted it!!
An excellent way to realise the level of appreciation you can discover with different equipment.