+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 25

Thread: Hi-Res/MQA debate

  1. #11
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 13,240
    I'm Adrian.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Clive197 View Post
    I gave up on Tidal and MQA files quite a while ago and stick to Qobuz for my streaming. I agree with the general consensus here that MQA is a failure as 24 bit files end up as 17/18 bit files which makes the whole issue complete nonsense. I suspect that Tidal get MQA rights free or at a very low rate so that it would gain some momentum. I think that is backfiring on the the original licensee, as there are more and more negative reviews.
    Yes Clive I have done the same, and actually at the moment prefer Qobuz, I noticed a few others on AoS seem to have moved onto it as well. I am not an avid streamer, but it is a convenient medium.
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound, and accepting you get it wrong sometimes.

    Analog Inputs: Pro-Ject Signature 10 TT & arm, Benz Micro LP-S, Michel Cusis MC, Goldring 2500 and Ortofon Rondo Blue cartridges, Hitachi FT5500 mk2 Tuner

    Digital:- Marantz SA-KI Pearl CD player, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi+ Pro, Buffalo NAS Drive

    Amplification:- AudioValve Sunilda phono stage, Krell KSP-7B pre-amp, Krell KSA-80 power amp

    Output: Wilson Benesch Vector speakers, KLH Ultimate One Headphones

    Cables: Tellurium Q Ultra Black II RCA & Chord Epic 2 RCA, various speaker leads, & links


    I think I am nearing audio nirvana, but don’t tell anyone.

  2. #12
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,779
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AJSki2fly View Post
    Hi Martin, how you doing, nice to hear from you.

    Well I will have to bow to you as I have not personally experienced the results of either a £M or Sony digital recorder, not knowingly anyway.


    .
    Donald Fagen 'The Nightfly' was done on the 3M
    Dire Straits 'Brothers In Arms' was done on the 3M or the Sony, can't remember which now.

    'The Nightfly' is regarded as a masterclass of recording quality and gets used by engineers to test front of house PA systems because of that. Yet it's not just an early digital recording, it's one of the very first.

    Which sort of also puts lie to another audiophile myth that the engineers didn't know what they were doing with the early digital recorders. Maybe there were one or two who struggled but I don't see why that would be.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  3. #13
    Join Date: May 2020

    Location: Suffolk

    Posts: 246
    I'm Ray.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Donald Fagen 'The Nightfly' was done on the 3M
    Dire Straits 'Brothers In Arms' was done on the 3M or the Sony, can't remember which now.

    'The Nightfly' is regarded as a masterclass of recording quality and gets used by engineers to test front of house PA systems because of that. Yet it's not just an early digital recording, it's one of the very first.

    Which sort of also puts lie to another audiophile myth that the engineers didn't know what they were doing with the early digital recorders. Maybe there were one or two who struggled but I don't see why that would be.
    The digital recordings maybe ok but some of the analogue conversions were not, I have 2 that I think were poor, Jeff Healey See the Light and U2 Rattle and Hum, the more recent remaster of See the Light is considerably better.

    I have read about Brothers In Arms recording, this is what they did to it, after it was recorded: " Once recorded, the files were downmixed to two-track stereo, then transferred to CD after running through as many as 20 Neve Modules (a type of analog preamplifier and equalizer) in a row, to reduce what Dire Straits’ Mark Knopfler and recording engineer Neil Dorfsman referred to as “digital harshness.” Passing through so many analog “helpers” sweetened digital’s hard sound—each successive Neve reshaped the sound by gently rolling off the ultrasonic frequencies."

  4. #14
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,779
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by StingRay View Post
    The digital recordings maybe ok but some of the analogue conversions were not, I have 2 that I think were poor, Jeff Healey See the Light and U2 Rattle and Hum, the more recent remaster of See the Light is considerably better.

    I have read about Brothers In Arms recording, this is what they did to it, after it was recorded: " Once recorded, the files were downmixed to two-track stereo, then transferred to CD after running through as many as 20 Neve Modules (a type of analog preamplifier and equalizer) in a row, to reduce what Dire Straits’ Mark Knopfler and recording engineer Neil Dorfsman referred to as “digital harshness.” Passing through so many analog “helpers” sweetened digital’s hard sound—each successive Neve reshaped the sound by gently rolling off the ultrasonic frequencies."
    Well they would get rid of any ultrasonics as there wouldn't be any with 16/44.1 but I know what you mean. That's all about getting a sound they wanted though, it's not because there is anything wrong with the recorder. It's not uncommon to run various tracks or even the whole mix through an RTR and back to the desk just to get that 'analogue' feel on it. It's just compression and noise of course but it's part of the artistic process same as deciding what mic or guitar to use.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  5. #15
    Join Date: Feb 2016

    Location: Melksham, Wiltshire

    Posts: 726
    I'm Peter.

    Default

    Reluctant to join the debate but MQA is either good or not so good. Fortunately or Unfortunately I've spent the money on an MQA dac and I'm in complete confusion about it all.

    For those making coment about the quality of MQA without the hardware unfold are talking nonsense.

    All I can say is this, sometimes MQA can sound a little unjointed but can also sound as good as it gets..... It really does depend on the recording and how it's been mastered.

    High res it is! However, being a Tidal and Qobus devote, 24 bit tracks sound equally as good.

    Roon is for me as good as is gets (thus far) and MQA has its place, as does any 24 bit track.

    Have I wasted my money on an MQA dac... Who knows? It's just to have both options.

    I've Read all the previous posts, some right, some wrong and I'm a vinyl man but open to something new.

    MQA, Good or bad..... Who knows?

    Me.... I love it and hate it... But yer can't please all the people all the time.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  6. #16
    Join Date: Feb 2009

    Location: London

    Posts: 83

    Default

    Just spent the last month or so switching between Spotify, Qobuz, Tidal and Amazon Music HD using an Audioquest Dragonfly Red MQA on downsizing system.

    I’m no pro but I can pick up the difference on my fave tracks between Spotify and hi-res versions on Tidal / Qobuz. I find it harder/impossible to tell the difference between Tidal MQA and Qobuz hi res. Both apps have really annoying UI issues.

    Tidal’s MQA catalogue is tiny and not worth dedicated hardware in my opinion.

    Sticking with Qobuz and getting rid of MQA DAC.

  7. #17
    Join Date: May 2020

    Location: Suffolk

    Posts: 246
    I'm Ray.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sanchezxxx View Post
    Just spent the last month or so switching between Spotify, Qobuz, Tidal and Amazon Music HD using an Audioquest Dragonfly Red MQA on downsizing system.

    I’m no pro but I can pick up the difference on my fave tracks between Spotify and hi-res versions on Tidal / Qobuz. I find it harder/impossible to tell the difference between Tidal MQA and Qobuz hi res. Both apps have really annoying UI issues.

    Tidal’s MQA catalogue is tiny and not worth dedicated hardware in my opinion.

    Sticking with Qobuz and getting rid of MQA DAC.
    What were the UI issues? Only used Qobuz on my desktop and I had problems, the search function is poor, Tidal had no issues apart from their recommended music which was not to my taste at all. Now I use a Bluesound Node, at the moment I'm using Deezer HiFi which is fine, Tidal is also very similar. A few people have mentioned UI issues but I don't really understand what they are.

  8. #18
    Join Date: Feb 2009

    Location: London

    Posts: 83

    Default

    Biggest UI issue for me in Qobuz are player controls / timeline disappearing in the iOS App while moving through different views, requiring sometimes going bk 2 steps to skip a song. Button, menu placement etc is frustrating, requiring 2x effort vs Spotify. Few bugs re adding songs to play queue / play next. That said the are recruiting for a much needed project manager so I have faith they will be fixed. I like their curated playlists vs algorithm recommended me more of the same music I already listen too. Reminds me of an old school record shop. Like to support the underdog if they have potential to improve.

    Tidal UI bug for me - they will probably say it’s a feature: Search for a song on desktop > Click song > add it to playlist > it will add the whole album as it brings up the song in the album rather than just the song. You have to scroll down to the song in the album and add it alone despite having searched for the song.

    Making / editing playlists in both is a bit of a pain.

    Amazon HD seemed very pop focussed during my trial period and had nothing major for or against.

    In everyday use many little things like this are frustrating. Spotify are not perfect but have done an awesome job for day to day use via smartphone.

    One other thing I notice is that over all recording Qobuz appears to have a certain liveliness vs Spotify. Maybe that is what people call PRAT but it’s def there.

    Back to MQA I read it’s just as much about mastering tools as it is compression and playback. Nothing against it if everything is in that format when getting charged for it. Right now it seems more of a demo than a product without the demo price point. Interesting to read what Linn and Chord say about the matter. I’ve made my decision for the medium term. Will be interesting to see where it ends up in another 3 yrs time.

    More 24bit audio and genuine innovation in hifi is a win for us all.

  9. #19
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Carlisle - UK

    Posts: 1,956
    I'm Ken.

    Default

    MQA

    This is my contribution and should be considered as just one point of view amongst the many which have been offered, to give a balanced overall view on the subject.

    As I understand it......
    You have to buy all your digital gear/music again as MQA files are not compatible with non MQA gear, so forget about RPi streamers etc. There is a limited catalogue and streaming options available at present.

    DSP is not compatible with MQA files, that's the whole point of it, your locked out of any digital post processing or copying. So the likes of minidsp, active filters or room correction, even subs with digital filters etc, won't work with it. If I'm wrong about this, someone speak up, but that's what I'm taking from what I've read.

    It's a solution to a problem that does not exist from the consumers point of view, the small reduction is file size is not relevant these days, as storage is cheap. It's a loss'y process, how can this sound any better than a non loss'y file of the same resolution? It's more about publishing right's, copy protection and control within the industry. Don't think for one moment, that if it was to become established, the industry would not enable this element, which has been there from its inception, Why so?

    I won't touch anything that is linked to MQA, hardware or software. I recently purchased a Topping D90 DAC, but went for the non MQA version. If the only option had been with MQA, I would have shopped elsewhere. This is my way of expressing my absolute opposition to MQA the only way I can.

    As far as HiRes goes, the highest level I take things to is 24/96 lossless. A well mastered recording at this resolution sounds superb, I feel taking it any higher is just eating up disc space, without any audible (to me) improvement. Even a 320kbs MP3 sounds pretty impressive, if the mastering was good in the first place.

    YMMV

    Edit: Another fan of Qobuz here, accessed through a Pi4B/LMS with Qobuz plugin.
    The Windows App used to be terrible, it would lock up frequently. They improved it when they entered the USA market, but it still occasionally runs into problems on that
    platform.
    Last edited by Qwin; 08-07-2020 at 11:48. Reason: Added Qobuz comment.

  10. #20
    Join Date: May 2020

    Location: Suffolk

    Posts: 246
    I'm Ray.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sanchezxxx View Post
    Biggest UI issue for me in Qobuz are player controls / timeline disappearing in the iOS App while moving through different views, requiring sometimes going bk 2 steps to skip a song. Button, menu placement etc is frustrating, requiring 2x effort vs Spotify. Few bugs re adding songs to play queue / play next. That said the are recruiting for a much needed project manager so I have faith they will be fixed. I like their curated playlists vs algorithm recommended me more of the same music I already listen too. Reminds me of an old school record shop. Like to support the underdog if they have potential to improve.

    Tidal UI bug for me - they will probably say it’s a feature: Search for a song on desktop > Click song > add it to playlist > it will add the whole album as it brings up the song in the album rather than just the song. You have to scroll down to the song in the album and add it alone despite having searched for the song.

    Making / editing playlists in both is a bit of a pain.

    Amazon HD seemed very pop focussed during my trial period and had nothing major for or against.

    In everyday use many little things like this are frustrating. Spotify are not perfect but have done an awesome job for day to day use via smartphone.

    One other thing I notice is that over all recording Qobuz appears to have a certain liveliness vs Spotify. Maybe that is what people call PRAT but it’s def there.

    Back to MQA I read it’s just as much about mastering tools as it is compression and playback. Nothing against it if everything is in that format when getting charged for it. Right now it seems more of a demo than a product without the demo price point. Interesting to read what Linn and Chord say about the matter. I’ve made my decision for the medium term. Will be interesting to see where it ends up in another 3 yrs time.

    More 24bit audio and genuine innovation in hifi is a win for us all.
    I see, I don't use iOS App. I play albums not just tracks and I don't do playlists.

    Qobuz webplayer did not do gapless and had a long gap. I could not get the desktop app. to download for weeks due to errors.

    Tidal I did not have any issues.

    Deezer HiFi had many issues on desktop but these have gone on the Bluesound App. but the Flow has gone, this was after each album you selected had finished, was like a radio based on your listening experience but had new similar artists, it was good, now it just reverts to the same album all the time.
    I will try Tidal again as only used that on my Windows desktop. But it's £20pm so too expensive compared to the others.

    I may even try Amazon HD. I think most of these streamers do tweak the sound, Qobuz I believe does not.

    I don't want MQA, my Bluesound Node can unfold it but my DACs are not compatible so it's pretty pointless for me.

    I wish Qobuz had the same choice as Spotify or Deezer or Tidal.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •