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Thread: Ortofon Cadenza Black - Fritz Geiger club

  1. #1
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 9,302
    I'm Andrew.

    Default Ortofon Cadenza Black - Fritz Geiger club

    Yes I know it's a limited club. Just one question, what tracking force are you using?

    I've been using 2.3-4g and whilst its extremely good, I still feel it's lacking something. I'm thinking 2.6g to mimic the tracking force needed for the MC ANNA?

    Just a thought, any advice greatly accepted.
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

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  2. #2
    Join Date: Feb 2016

    Location: Melksham, Wiltshire

    Posts: 726
    I'm Peter.

    Default

    A personal piece of advice but I would not go above 2.3g. I’m not understanding why you would need a heaver tracking force.

    I’m not thinking this will improve matters.

    Other adjustments need to be checked prior to more downforce to confirm if all is in alignment.


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  3. #3
    Join Date: Apr 2011

    Location: London

    Posts: 4,419
    I'm Robert.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Boyse6748 View Post
    A personal piece of advice but I would not go above 2.3g. I’m not understanding why you would need a heaver tracking force.

    I’m not thinking this will improve matters.

    Other adjustments need to be checked prior to more downforce to confirm if all is in alignment.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    +1, I'm also surprised you've gone that high. You've gone from the original CB recommended tracking of 2.3g right up to 4g

    Remember, it's been re-tipped with a different profile to the original Shibata so things are now different in regards to tracking force

    I'm tracking at around 2.15 / 2.16 and it's spot on.

    Here's Kilians response to me after I dropped the arm down on the record from a height and stressed the suspension, meaning i had to send it back.

    When i got it back I asked him if I should still track around 2.2 which is what he had recommended when I first had the re-tip.

    Hi Rob,

    yes, or 2.15 gram. 2.1 is more or less the lowest figure for optimal tracking and I usually don't have to go above 2.35 with these carts.


    Kind regards / met vriendelijke groet / mit freundlichen Grüssen,

    Kilian Bakker
    My System:
    Amplification - Sansui AU-alpha 707 DR
    Turntable - Technics SP10 MK2-Technics EPA-250 Tonearm-Yannis Tome 423.5Plus tonearm cable-Eichmann KLEI Absolute Harmony plugs.
    Ortofon Cadenza Black moving coil cartridge-Fritz Gyger S re-tip. Panzerholz plinth.

    CDP - Pioneer PD-91
    Speakers - Spendor D7 on Soundcare SuperSpikes
    QED Silver Spiral speaker cable-airloc banana plugs
    Mains - Ultra Pure silver plated un-switched socket-Missing link EPS 500 silver plated plugs-Hi-Fi Tuning gold plated silver ceramic 13 amp fuses

  4. #4
    Join Date: Feb 2016

    Location: Melksham, Wiltshire

    Posts: 726
    I'm Peter.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbieGong View Post
    +1, I'm also surprised you've gone that high. You've gone from the original CB recommended tracking of 2.3g right up to 4g

    Remember, it's been re-tipped with a different profile to the original Shibata so things are now different in regards to tracking force

    I'm tracking at around 2.15 / 2.16 and it's spot on.

    Here's Kilians response to me after I dropped the arm down on the record from a height and stressed the suspension, meaning i had to send it back.

    When i got it back I asked him if I should still track around 2.2 which is what he had recommended when I first had the re-tip.

    Hi Rob,

    yes, or 2.15 gram. 2.1 is more or less the lowest figure for optimal tracking and I usually don't have to go above 2.35 with these carts.


    Kind regards / met vriendelijke groet / mit freundlichen Grüssen,

    Kilian Bakker
    Spot on Robbie

    Something else is amiss. As you mention, I’m now concerned that the suspension may have been stressed playing at 4g....... I hope not!!!


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  5. #5
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Galashiels

    Posts: 13,669
    I'm inthescottishmafia.

    Default

    I think he means 2.3 to 2.4g.
    “Music has always been a matter of energy to me, a question of fuel. Sentimental people call it inspiration, but what they really mean is fuel. I have always needed fuel. I am a serious consumer. On some nights I still believe that a car with the gas needle on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio”

    Hunter S Thompson

  6. #6
    Join Date: Feb 2016

    Location: Melksham, Wiltshire

    Posts: 726
    I'm Peter.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ali Tait View Post
    I think he means 2.3 to 2.4g.
    I hope so!


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  7. #7
    Join Date: Apr 2011

    Location: London

    Posts: 4,419
    I'm Robert.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Boyse6748 View Post
    I hope so!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Yeah, so do I
    My System:
    Amplification - Sansui AU-alpha 707 DR
    Turntable - Technics SP10 MK2-Technics EPA-250 Tonearm-Yannis Tome 423.5Plus tonearm cable-Eichmann KLEI Absolute Harmony plugs.
    Ortofon Cadenza Black moving coil cartridge-Fritz Gyger S re-tip. Panzerholz plinth.

    CDP - Pioneer PD-91
    Speakers - Spendor D7 on Soundcare SuperSpikes
    QED Silver Spiral speaker cable-airloc banana plugs
    Mains - Ultra Pure silver plated un-switched socket-Missing link EPS 500 silver plated plugs-Hi-Fi Tuning gold plated silver ceramic 13 amp fuses

  8. #8
    Join Date: Feb 2016

    Location: Melksham, Wiltshire

    Posts: 726
    I'm Peter.

    Default

    Anyway, if there is a miss understanding about the tracking force, my advice, for what it’s worth, would be to check VTA (SRA) and Azimuth to ensure all is as intended before increasing tracking force.

    This is a reasonably expensive bit of kit and care is needed but you don’t me to mention that fact.

    It might even be nice to know what arm / head shell is being used?


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  9. #9
    Join Date: Apr 2011

    Location: London

    Posts: 4,419
    I'm Robert.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Boyse6748 View Post
    Anyway, if there is a miss understanding about the tracking force, my advice, for what it’s worth, would be to check VTA (SRA) and Azimuth to ensure all is as intended before increasing tracking force.

    This is a reasonably expensive bit of kit and care is needed but you don’t me to mention that fact.

    It might even be nice to know what arm / head shell is being used?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    +1 you cant wing it with these sophisticated stylus profiles, said it til i'm tired

    I've had extensive experience with these, three different Ortofon Shibta carts, 2M Black, Quintet Black, Cadenza Black and now the FGS tip which is same as the Ortofon Replicants.

    ALL have required accurate set and a lot of attention in that regard, SRA/VTA overhang and Azimuth have to be bang on.

    They then have a very narrow sweet-spot which you have to find otherwise forget it, you wont hear what they do and are capable of and will think, what the $££$&# is the fuss about!?!.

    After paying mad attention to all parameters I've always finally dialled in that sweet-spot via careful on the fly vta, eventually bingo ! - happy days !

    It's why I'll never use a tonearm without on the fly, for this reason/these carts I'm drawn to and really enjoy.

    I'm seriously intrigued as to how you nail the sweet-spot otherwise, via tonearms that have vta adjustment slots ? or with anti-skate adjustment ? Either way, sounds like a bugger, not for me.

    You have to have patience and an ear too whilst doing it, it can take a while and be fatiguing but when you do, find it, hear it's there it's music and more and more music and ............... and hence I'm still up when I should be in bed

    * Btw, I've always found the above carts/ profiles nailed with a slightly tail down/negative rake AND when it's there/'in', the sound suddenly becomes calm, rather than noisy and tizzy, so listen, very carefully whilst adjusting - I should charge for this
    Last edited by RobbieGong; 09-06-2020 at 23:02.
    My System:
    Amplification - Sansui AU-alpha 707 DR
    Turntable - Technics SP10 MK2-Technics EPA-250 Tonearm-Yannis Tome 423.5Plus tonearm cable-Eichmann KLEI Absolute Harmony plugs.
    Ortofon Cadenza Black moving coil cartridge-Fritz Gyger S re-tip. Panzerholz plinth.

    CDP - Pioneer PD-91
    Speakers - Spendor D7 on Soundcare SuperSpikes
    QED Silver Spiral speaker cable-airloc banana plugs
    Mains - Ultra Pure silver plated un-switched socket-Missing link EPS 500 silver plated plugs-Hi-Fi Tuning gold plated silver ceramic 13 amp fuses

  10. #10
    Join Date: Sep 2014

    Location: brighton uk.

    Posts: 4,737
    I'm jamie.

    Default

    its easy rob,i use a block of bronze between the tonearm mounting collar and underside of the tonearm bracket that the rest is fixed to. i then slip between feeler gauges and i can go up and down to my hearts content in finer tolerances than you 'on the fly' guys dream about
    My System
    John Wood KT88 Amp.
    Paradise Phono Stage
    Sony TTS-8000 Turntable.
    PMAT-1010 MK6 Tonearm.
    Ortofon Cadenza Bronze
    Sony X555ES Cd Player
    Yamaha NS1000m Speakers

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