Ortofon Cadenza Black - Fritz Geiger club

[RobbieGong]

its easy rob,i use a block of bronze between the tonearm mounting collar and underside of the tonearm bracket that the rest is fixed to. i then slip between feeler gauges and i can go up and down to my hearts content in finer tolerances than you 'on the fly' guys dream about

Nice, sounds like you're living the dream there Jamie

[karma67]

oh yes,im rock and roll through and through

[karma67]

regarding the op,best advice i can give is check and re check all you settings,the fg tip is not a 5 minute set up. get all the base settings dead right and then fine tune the vta and tracking weight,they both influence each other.pick a female vocal for azimuth,fine tune untill the voice shrinks and is dead center.

[Wakefield Turntables]

OK,

I've been tracking at 2.2g - 2.4g, not 4g!!!!!!!! The only think I track at 4g are some SPU and a few cheap MM's.

I'm fully aware of the "sweet spot" and the difficulty in setting up these carts.

The cart should be fairly easy to set up due to fixed head geometry on the SME V. My failure I think comes from the VTA. I'm going to increase the tonearm height and then slowly lower until we get the sweet spot.

I originally thought the FGS would have a closer specification to the ANNA cartridge diamond and hence my thought's about using 2.6g. I've emailed Kilian and the advice I've been given if different to what's been quoted on this thread. I'll mail the response later when I've put the daughter to bed.

The rake angle is something that needs to be correctly set up. So I think I've two variables that arn't right, VTA and rake angle, which are probably the most important. Tracking force , antiskate, tonearm geometry are all pretty much ok. I do remember systematically going though every tonearm variable 8 years ago when I set up the original
CB. So, I'm buying a USB microscope to get the rake angle as good as I can. Meanwhile I'll play with the VTA and build up those 50 hours of burn in.

[RobbieGong]

Yep, as I say, after all parameters have been set spot on, I've always then found the sweet-spot, by carefully dialing-in via vta.

Takes patience but yeah, sounds like you're on it.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Kilian's reply.

"The Gyger S is quite similar to the Shibata with a tip radius of 6/48 µm. It is not as sensitive as the Shibata to VTA settings but nontheless we always recommend to try different settings as each tonearm/cart combo requires a different setup.

As with any tip, optimal azimuth is paramount.


For VTF with your cart, I'd recommend 2.25 - 2.35 gram, typically 2.3 but again that does depend on the arm as well. Therefor, 2.2 - 2.4 might be a range to explore.

As to VTA; I'd start with the headshell parallel to the record but many Cadenza users prefer a VTA where the arm slopes down to the back (slightly).



Loading also plays a huge role in all of this; Ortofon recommends 10 Ohm, I'd say that somewhere between 50 and 100 Ohm would be a good starting point (although 10-30 Ohm will actually work with this cart, slightly higher loading gives a more engaging preformance).


Yes, a run-in time of approx. 50 hours is normal.



This is a very critical cart but some extra fine-tuning can be rather rewarding. "

[RobbieGong]

All makes sense and as he mentions, does depend on arm too.

I'm tracking somewhere between 2.16 and 2.18 if I remember correctly, defo just under 2.2 and tracking beautifully.

I'm glad he's confirmed the tail down/negative rake I've experienced with all my Shibatas and the FGS.

I have an integrated amp so no messing/fiddling with loading to worry about - thankfully.

Also glad he's pointed out that these types of carts/stylus profiles are critical in terms of set up, which I've always expressed.

All the best with it Andy.

I will add this - Dont expect romance, overt excitement, bundles of cosyness as you fine tune / seek the sweetspot. This cart / stylus is all about what is in the groove - no 'additives', sweeteners or enhancers.

It is neutral/cool in character. It majors on accuracy as in, pulls a lot of recorded info from the grooves due to its long thin profile, allowing it to track deep into the groove, coupled with it's large contact patch area, tracing the groove walls means not only does it pull loads of recorded info but gets those very high frequencies too, if they are there, so on some tracks it can sound bright, which it isnt, it will give you whats there, warts an all. Good recordings sound just that, bad ones are portrayed as they are.

It gives you the recorded music not a glossed, altered, warmed or romanticised portrayal of it. It reveals the individual characteristics of each recording.

In a nutshell, it's a true hi-fidelity transducer

[bob4333]

There's some good stuff here and much of what has been written in this thread applies to all cartridges. Some carts give more rewarding results than others but the fundamental principles are the same. It's all about geometry and relationships.

Sadly too many people either "don't get it", or just give up because it's too much hassle. They don't know what's there to be had and they'll miss the "heart" of what vinyl has to offer.

Never was this brought home to me more than getting a result from my Cadenza Bronze, a pricey cart (for me) that comes across as fairly mediocre unless you take note of what's written above and take the time to get it right. I'd had some good carts before and found it perhaps a little easier to get a satisfying result from. On reflection I could probably have done better. This was more demanding.

Fourth time in my arm and I did get it right by persevering with it's set up - up to this point I was ready to sell it on as just another expensive failed venture. I can't see me parting with it now.

[karma67]

imo azimuth is more important than vta,thats not to say vta isn't by the way. also having a fixed headshell is no guarantee of perfect azimuth,you are relying on the diamond being perfectly mounted in relation to the cartridge body and also the tonearm board being dead level and true to the turntable platter.
one of the reasons i love the ortofon's built in azimuth adjustment on some of their cartridges,i think the cadenza has this.

[bob4333]

I can echo the importance of azimuth and yes, the Cadenza has a short "ridge" on it's top plate meaning the cart can rock a degree or two from side to side. This forces you to take notice. The thing that made the big difference was the acquisition of an admittedly cheap azimuth gauge (£3?).

After setting the stylus / cantilever azimuth using a mirror I rechecked it with the gauge and boy, was it out! A bit of careful adjustment and what a difference. Small tweaks bring big changes.