The biggest debate in the history of humankind -Tannoy crossovers original vs new.

[Pharos]

Why? That's the fastest way to madness!! Would you like the key to your padded cell now?

You question things to an EXTENT, then simply trust the God-given senses and level of judgement that you were born with, whilst accepting that they (and you) are part of an imperfect world. At least that's what normal people do.

Unfortunately, 'cravers of certainly' are destined to a life, not only of great discomfort, but gross disappointment!

Marco.

It is impossible to separate what we are born with from subsequent formative and developmental years.

I have never alluded to wanting, or expecting certainly; there is very little.

[Marco]

In discussion with him I asked whether he thought we had moved on from the hazy days of the 70s with Tannoys, and his response was that I would be shocked at the massive improvement in sound quality over that time.

Don't assume rather ignorantly, and without proper evidence (i.e. without having heard them), that the sound I've achieved with my Tannoys (using modern crossovers), in the context of my system, remotely resembles what you or he heard in the 70s from yours!

Active ATCs use high-quality drive units, but unfortunately will always be governed by the limitations of their on-board amp packs, which contain mediocre components, therefore are built to a price and limit the potential of the drive units. I've heard plenty, and they're not my cuppa.

That's my last reply to you on this thread, as clearly we'll never agree.

Marco.

[Pharos]

You seem to be giving me an instruction and assuming my ignorance, whilst I have made no assumptions, and would think it very stupid and arrogant so to do.

I do not have active ATCs, and my having owned four pairs, and rebuilt the latter 100ASLs would give an indication of my dissatisfaction with them, this extending beyond my own two months work and £1k expenditure in so doing and then returning to ESSs.

I think that the amp packs are probably better than the speakers, and I retain my ATC amps for that reason despite not using the SPA2.

I think that we probably would agree on a great deal, and fail to see any disagreement between us; why should there be any agreement or disagreement in any way other than on opinions of equipment?

It is OK to disagree, and in discussion light may be shown one way or another, this producing better understandings.

[Denzil]

Regarding things having to be one way or another, I think everyone should see this. So much wisdom.

https://youtu.be/JZyiJk7U05Y

[Pharos]

The whole event of a couple of weeks ago is just another in a whole series of similar ones in my lifetime, and time after time over the last 50 years I have wondered how soon it would all change, but it hasn't.

Racism is just one, but a major and very visible one, of many human rights issues which include women's rights, gay rights, and many others, but looking at the problems of prejudice in a more macro way, group behaviour is the real root of the problem.

Discrimination occurs over many less evident and non visible characteristics because of the insecurity of a large majority of our species, and it results in very irrational behaviour designed to support the group by subconscious mutual 'consent' to ostracise a minority which may produce discomfort in that majority.

Whilst at school we are taught that life is implicitly meritocratic, we do not live in a meritocratic society, in fact one very far from it, and though often there are semblances of meritocracy, very often hidden agendas work very much more powerfully against these.

Discrimination can be based on numerous disparate characteristics quite other than physically evident ones, this often making detectability nearly impossible to prove.

I have in my life fought for human rights throughout my career, this causing me a great deal of disadvantage and ridicule, and massively compromising my progress and recognition, and resulting in an economically lower standard of living.

I am devoting my life now to attempting to write blues expressing these problems in recognition of all the forms of abuse by the more powerful over those less so.

[Macca]

Whilst at school we are taught that life is implicitly meritocratic, we do not live in a meritocratic society, in fact one very far from it, and though often there are semblances of meritocracy, very often hidden agendas work very much more powerfully against these.


.

Were we? I know I wasn't, maybe things have changed. We were taught that life isn't fair, that it never will be, and that we should get used to it and learn to live, work and achieve our objectives within that framework. Whereas the modern 'everyone gets a prize and all views are valid' creates a sense of entitlement and self-righteousness within people that ends up being harmful to them and society as a whole when things don't work out for them as they do in fairy tales.

Getting used to (at least) occasionally failing and not getting everything one wants used to be seen as a path to maturity and wisdom, now it seems to be seen as an evil which must be combatted at all costs.

The term 'Meritocracy' was coined by Malcolm Dunlop Young and he did not regard it as a 'good thing'.

This is in contrast to the original, condemnatory use of the term in 1958 by Michael Dunlop Young in his work "The Rise of the Meritocracy", who was satirizing the ostensibly merit-based Tripartite System of education practiced in the United Kingdom at the time; he claimed that, in the Tripartite System, "merit is equated with intelligence-plus-effort, its possessors are identified at an early age and selected for appropriate intensive education, and there is an obsession with quantification, test-scoring, and qualification

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meritocracy

Obviously murdering people (of any ethnic background) is unacceptable but I don't see that as intrinsically linked to the 'unfairness' of the world in general.

[Joe]

I've just stumbled along through life, trying to do as little harm as possible. I frequently have cause to remember the words of Horace Walpole:

'Life is a comedy for those who think; a tragedy for those who feel'.

But certainly I remember my parents often saying to me, and me saying to my children, in response to the complaint that 'It's not fair', 'Well, life's not fair, so you'd better get used to it.'

[fatmarley]

But certainly I remember my parents often saying to me, and me saying to my children, in response to the complaint that 'It's not fair', 'Well, life's not fair, so you'd better get used to it.'

My old mate once said that when he complained of life not being fair to his gran, she replied "Who said life was supposed to be fair?". That's one of those little things that's always stuck with me.

[Pharos]

Martin, I was referring to what is implied by the way that teaching operates; doing well and getting a gold star, top of cla etc.

Of course life is not fair and I fully acknowledge that, but it should have been made clear at school that the meritocratic system which operated there was anomalous.

When you say;
" Whereas the modern 'everyone gets a prize and all views are valid' creates a sense of entitlement and self-righteousness within people that ends up being harmful to them and society as a whole when things don't work out for them as they do in fairy tales. "
I am inclined to agree with most of that, and it is ridiculous to say;
"Didn't Brian do well in maths getting 3% and coming 33rd in a class of 33?"

No he didn't, and it is a shame, let's help him do better. Above all it is counter the meritocratic principle to praise a poor performance. (unless there are extenuating circumstances of course). Your reference to "the modern view" is surely counter the principles of meritocracy.

What is wrong with praise and recognition for a well executed task? I certainly admire the massive co-ordinated efforts of the moon landing project.

"Obviously murdering people (of any ethnic background) is unacceptable but I don't see that as intrinsically linked to the 'unfairness' of the world in general. "

It is if it occurs non proportionally to a subsect of society, that reflects inequality.

[Joe]

I am inclined to agree with most of that, and it is ridiculous to say;
"Didn't Brian do well in maths getting 3% and coming 33rd in a class of 33?"

That sounds like me! (though obviously my name isn't Brian). I was a whiz at arithmetic in junior school, then in the second year at grammar school along came algebra, which is where maths and I went our separate ways.