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Thread: PRaT - please explain

  1. #11
    Join Date: Apr 2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by RMutt View Post
    Just imagine if you’d put together a system that slowed down the music, altered the rhythm and stuff happened at the wrong time.
    Just use a Rega Planar 3 with a tired belt.
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  2. #12
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    Quote Originally Posted by RMutt View Post
    Just imagine if you’d put together a system that slowed down the music, altered the rhythm and stuff happened at the wrong time.
    I don't have to imagine, I've done that a few times.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  3. #13
    Join Date: Nov 2011

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebottle View Post
    Adrian thanks for a comprehensive reply. I understand the construct of music even though I am not a musician.

    However what I have always though when PRaT is mentioned is as you have said, it is part of the musical structure. What I can't grasp is why any kit might vary the relationship between the elements in PRaT, so why was this term invented (if not as a marketing 'tool') when in my mind these things can't be separated.

    When people rave about the benefits of PRaT or otherwise are they mistaking transient attack (or speed if you like) and possibly a less than crisp bass line for failings in Timing or Rhythm respectively?
    Well my reply was partially serious and some tongue in PRaT.

    A system could alter timing, for example a turntable with a belt that flexed too easily and caused wow, you would here modulation of long notes. Also if the motors speed varied badly if would have similar effect. Same with tape machines. Electronics can cause delay at differ frequencies I believe, but I doubt most people would hear it.

    Anyway most gear nowadays even the cheaper end of the market is pretty good.


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  4. #14
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    A marketing term Naim coined to fool the middle class and Freemasons into parting with the funds form the late 70's onward.

    Or possible to disguise the fact the 80hz lift in the lower bass naim amps gave to generate the 'toe tapping' effect to overlook the fact their amps were in 'old skool slang' piss poor so in order to over come this slight drawback, St Julian of Vereker decided (he who made 'exceeding good amps lol' ) to kick start the (occ)cult of naim which 'Naimee's' staunchly defend this to hilt under the delusion they own world class audio.

    Who can forget those immotal words "Your no one without a Naim'

    So to quantize then naim amps delivered a two dimension but up front powerful sound that majored on 'leading' (Bleeding) edge musical (lol) depiction had virtually zero trailing edge or note decay, had the tonal quality of a punch drunk Aardvark on speed and the timing of a 140Mph misfiring two stroke wheeze bag trying to achieve a land speed record down Budleigh Salterton high street on a wind sweep Monday afternoon.

    The PRaT is a two fold anachronism for we can't really make real sounding amplifiers that music lovers would appreciate so we will 'invent' the toe tapping bang, bang throb that we can market as Pace Rhythm and Timing to the mass as they don't know squat. Or the people that purchased the equipment.

    Its an artificially induced bass hump that agrees with the brain to feel its bouncing along in time with the music problem is all music is very different and applying the same Naim algorithm to all forms of music is like to trying to go to the moon and back on a Vespa.

    I have an old email that was sent out to dealers nearly two decades ago on how to 'Tune dem' a customer into submission by strategic use of a open frame chair and liberal applications of the side of the foot in time to the music. You really could not make it up.

    Thankfully the later generations have discovered real music making equipment from many other brands can deliver a far more satisfying PRaT than anything that Salisbury can muster. IMHO

    One last item for the piece the self affirmation of the cult of Salisbury, even when faced with the overwhelming realization their precious naim system is utterly and totally out classed. A quiet skulk home followed by a alcohol fueled ear syringing via number 11 on the naim volume dial to 'confirm' to themselves their have the best possible. The crux here is not so much the total amount spent on their equipment BUT the physiology of them questioning their own choices, after all how could a dedicated follower of two dimensional, non involving bleeding sound could possibly be wrong? Surely not Carruthers?

    Turning Naimie's from the (undead) soundscape sound be an Olympic sport time to canvas Bojo

    Of Course YMMV and IMHO
    Last edited by Mr. C; 15-05-2020 at 15:33.
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  5. #15
    Join Date: May 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by RMutt View Post
    Just imagine if you’d put together a system that slowed down the music, altered the rhythm and stuff happened at the wrong time.
    Ahh, you've heard my system then!
    Buy Bose...And get your parking validated!.

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  6. #16
    Join Date: Sep 2017

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    I mostly think of PRaT as a bullshit term, however last year I auditioned some headphones and one pair made everything sound a touch slower

    After listening to them some more I decided that it was a slightly "warm" tonal balance combined with some lack of "snap" in the midrange that was responsible for this sleep-inducing quality.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. C View Post
    had the tonal quality of a punch drunk Aardvark on speed and the timing of a 140Mph misfiring two stroke wheeze bag trying to achieve a land speed record down Budleigh Salterton high street on a wind sweep Monday afternoon.
    Quality Tony

    Possible Refuse and Trash then?

  8. #18
    Join Date: Jan 2009

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    I thought 'PRaT' referred to any follower of the Flat Earth school of audio, as promulgated during the mid '70s to the early '80s by the Glasgow-Salisbury axis.
    Barry

  9. #19
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    It appears to focus on the movement of the music, with no mentions at all about tone, melody, air, etc. In other words its bollocks.
    Current system 1210 GR. CDP - Meridian G08. Amp -Sugden A21I - Sig. Wharfedale Lintons.

  10. #20
    Join Date: Mar 2017

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    As an objectivist, (hides prepared in nuclear shelter), I have never understood what it has referred to, let alone meant.

    Adrian is right on the music, but how can it extend to technical stuff to any significant degree, the timings of it all are much in excess of human perception, and the rhythm is indexed to the tempo, they cannot be separated.

    Certainly perception of SQ can be affected by frequency response abnormalities, and a change in emphasis my produce exaggerated aspects of timpani, but individual parts in a musical piece cannot be separated and their time relationship be altered.

    The Linn/Naim school did start this BS, made a lot of money, and corrupted the minds of so many.

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