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Thread: A new kid on the block...Topping E30

  1. #11
    Join Date: Sep 2013

    Location: North Island New Zealand

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    I'm Chris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Opti-cal View Post
    Ahhh Amir (and his followers . . ), yes as much as I respect the importance for measurements of a component, it doesn't tell you 100% of the story. It's a useful resource but zero time spent actually listening to most of the products reviewed there misses almost the entire point of this hobby for me. They hate R2R DAC's too as they can measure appallingly (at least in the measurements they have deem as gospel to DAC performance).

    Having said they they are a 'science' review forum so they do what is advertised. Just won't entertain any subjectivity what so ever, which often results in stupid spats and inflexible opinions.

    As I say, a useful resource but ultra reliance and faith in pure numbers is not something that I can fully get on board with. If you measure a Lampizator tube DAC against a PC soundcard which one do you think will measure better . . . . and which one will sound better.
    Yes ASR misses the point entirely, by not listening, and worse measuring equipment wrongly, invariably using levels like 4v RMS that no commercial CD can possibly attain. Trying to get them to recognize that measurements if used, should be done correctly is a battle, let alone getting them to use their ears, which they flatly refuse to do.

  2. #12
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

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    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Light Dependant Resistor View Post
    Yes ASR misses the point entirely, by not listening, and worse measuring equipment wrongly, invariably using levels like 4v RMS that no commercial CD can possibly attain. Trying to get them to recognize that measurements if used, should be done correctly is a battle, let alone getting them to use their ears, which they flatly refuse to do.
    I don't want to divert the thread but that is a complete misrepresentation.
    Current Lash Up:

    *Oppo BDT-101CI* Nelson Pass DCB1 / Krell KSA100 mkII * JM Lab Electra 926 *


    'You fool! To think that your ape-brain could contain the full knowledge of the Krell!'

  3. #13
    Join Date: Sep 2013

    Location: North Island New Zealand

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    I'm Chris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    I don't want to divert the thread but that is a complete misrepresentation.
    To see for yourself , download Audacity, get it to display the level in the loudest CD you can find, read its RMS level which won't go past 2 volts , closer to 1.2v. Then look up reviews at ASR where they measure distortion at full volume where all that is being tested is the wiring of the Schiit preamp, as they refuse to measure passive volume controls at anything less than full volume - so an entirely pointless exercise as no one normally listens at full volume. You will see them applying 4v RMS to the wiring - and thinking that is OK.

    As for not listening, read the many many objections they have to listening.

  4. #14
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Sheffield/Peak District. UK

    Posts: 516
    I'm Richard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Opti-cal View Post
    Ahhh Amir (and his followers . . ), yes as much as I respect the importance for measurements of a component, it doesn't tell you 100% of the story. It's a useful resource but zero time spent actually listening to most of the products reviewed there misses almost the entire point of this hobby for me. They hate R2R DAC's too as they can measure appallingly (at least in the measurements they have deem as gospel to DAC performance).

    Having said they they are a 'science' review forum so they do what is advertised. Just won't entertain any subjectivity what so ever, which often results in stupid spats and inflexible opinions.

    As I say, a useful resource but ultra reliance and faith in pure numbers is not something that I can fully get on board with. If you measure a Lampizator tube DAC against a PC soundcard which one do you think will measure better . . . . and which one will sound better.

    Living Voice speakers have an incredibly natural presentation on the few opportunities I've had the pleasure of listening to them. I really really like them, everything about them. They are good looking, well designed and above all sound superb. All boxes ticked for me. Good choice.

    I think with those components you should try it in your system with the battery supply.

    Haha, my dad is 70 and sometimes when we're listening to a piece (seems like a long time ago now!) I'll say, 'great shimmer or decay' his reply will be 'oh is something playing?' . . . .

    Noticed over the last few years that I'm now missing the top few hz actually. Only noticed when I wasn't enjoying certain pieces quite so much . . .

    Give it 10 years and I'll just be sat there with a pair of subwoofers, pipe and slippers.

    Cheers
    Agreed, especially the first 3 paragraphs.

    I tend to believe that a subjective difference should (eventually) be objectively measurable, but an objective difference may not be subject to subjectivity.

    Amir’s website is at least honest I suppose in that one knows what one is getting. Often the comments that follow are both informative and can be amusing in that they can find themselves driving up the same cul-de-sac of pure objectivity. Having said that I have read some subjective postscripts by him. He seems to have a love/hate affair with Schiit products.

    I also think that it’s always pleasing to have one’s subjective assessments (prejudices?) confirmed by objective measurements. It gives one a warm glow.

    If I was to judge hi-Fi by advertising objective measurements I would still be using a Sinclair Project 60!

    Thanks,

    R.

  5. #15
    Join Date: May 2018

    Location: Woking

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    I'm Chris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonky View Post
    Agreed, especially the first 3 paragraphs.

    I tend to believe that a subjective difference should (eventually) be objectively measurable, but an objective difference may not be subject to subjectivity.

    Amir’s website is at least honest I suppose in that one knows what one is getting. Often the comments that follow are both informative and can be amusing in that they can find themselves driving up the same cul-de-sac of pure objectivity. Having said that I have read some subjective postscripts by him. He seems to have a love/hate affair with Schiit products.

    I also think that it’s always pleasing to have one’s subjective assessments (prejudices?) confirmed by objective measurements. It gives one a warm glow.

    If I was to judge hi-Fi by advertising objective measurements I would still be using a Sinclair Project 60!

    Thanks,

    R.
    Like nearly everything in hi-fi (life!) the sensible ground lays somewhere between both camps. You'd be silly to completely disregard measurements but in my opinion, as equally foolish to let them dictate what you do or indeed do not buy.

    The Schiit thing is interesting, I think he (Amir) respects the engineering as well as the philosophy of the products but then quite a lot of it doesn't measure well under his conditions so probably feels he has to 'trash' it a bit. I can imagine a lot of the members are just waiting to wax lyrical about a new benchmark on the 'Sinad' graph as much as they are ready to destroy a product that fails certain parameters.

    It's a bit gladiatorial actually, "Who next contender dares to enter the pit of measurements" - crowd baying for blood . . .

    Sorry that's me being a bit crass and over simplification of what is overall an interesting forum but like most of these hobbyist forums, its entertainment isn't it. As such sometimes you need hero and villain (products).

    As for the lack of 'real world' measurements, I've heard others say the same. I'm not technical enough to make a judgement but like I say others whom I consider knowledgeable say the same.

    A fun little antidote to ASR I find:

    https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php
    System 1: - Amp - Musical Paradise MP-701 - Neurochrome 686
    - Source: Linn LP12 (AT-OC9XEN) - D-Klimo LAR copy - Novafidelity X12 - Musical Paradise MP-D1 mkII -
    - Speakers: Cambridge Acoustic "Grand Master Evolution" Subs: - REL T3's -

    System 2 - Amp: Marantz 1060
    - Source: Audio Technica LP5 - EAR834p clone - Pioneer N-30K - Musical Paradise MP-D1 -
    - Speakers: Loth X BS1's - Sub: REL T3 -

    System 3: - Amp: Custom N-core 300B SEP -
    - Source: Cambridge Audio Stream Magic 6 - Topping E30 -
    - Speakers: Quad 63's -

  6. #16
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Sheffield/Peak District. UK

    Posts: 516
    I'm Richard.

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    "A fun little antidote to ASR I find:

    https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php
    "
    Thanks for that; I hadn't heard of that site before.

    Surprising though it may seem during these strange times, I've had very little opportunity for A/B testing between the SEG and E30(powered by an Anker battery). The times I have had a few spare moments I've convinced myself that one is better, switched DACs - and found little difference! (I've used both speakers and headphones). However, the E30 will be for my second system (iMac + Rega Brio). Perhaps that says it all?

    For anyone on a budget I can thoroughly recommend the E30. I wonder if an iFi PS would make any difference?

    Thanks again.
    Last edited by Bonky; 20-05-2020 at 13:11.

  7. #17
    Join Date: May 2018

    Location: Woking

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    I'm Chris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonky View Post
    I wonder if an iFi PS would make any difference?
    It does, not night and day but definite audible improvement. Yes its half the cost of the (cheap-ish) DAC but it is better than with a 'linear' power supply. The IfI is actually a well engineered switching supply and does drop the noise floor allowing more detail through.

    Likewise the E30 is for a second (ish) system and for its purpose (to be left on all the time along with a Class D amp) it seems perfect. A lot of the rest of my gear has tubes in the chain and I fancied having an SS low power consumption system I can just press play on. Also less buttons for the Mrs to have to turn on if she wants to listen to a 'proper' system rather than just a soundbar/headphones.
    System 1: - Amp - Musical Paradise MP-701 - Neurochrome 686
    - Source: Linn LP12 (AT-OC9XEN) - D-Klimo LAR copy - Novafidelity X12 - Musical Paradise MP-D1 mkII -
    - Speakers: Cambridge Acoustic "Grand Master Evolution" Subs: - REL T3's -

    System 2 - Amp: Marantz 1060
    - Source: Audio Technica LP5 - EAR834p clone - Pioneer N-30K - Musical Paradise MP-D1 -
    - Speakers: Loth X BS1's - Sub: REL T3 -

    System 3: - Amp: Custom N-core 300B SEP -
    - Source: Cambridge Audio Stream Magic 6 - Topping E30 -
    - Speakers: Quad 63's -

  8. #18
    Join Date: Nov 2018

    Location: Grimsby

    Posts: 364
    I'm David.

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    I purchased a 15v ifi ps from a member on pfm and it has made a slight improvement to my D30. I don't have a 15v lps so cannot do a comparison.

  9. #19
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Sheffield/Peak District. UK

    Posts: 516
    I'm Richard.

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    Yes, I too have an iFi on order. It'll be good to get away from having to recharge the external battery and get rid of some more nuisance leads.

    R

  10. #20
    Join Date: May 2018

    Location: Woking

    Posts: 563
    I'm Chris.

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    Just updating this thread really and giving some more credit to the Topping E30 combined with ifi power supply (5v).

    Its been three or so months now I've had it and its actually made its way into my main system. Admittedly it doesn't have 'all' the texture and tone of my tube DAC's but for imaging, separation and especially soundstaging, it is actually a few streets ahead. The image it throws really is something to behold and it has definitely improved with time.

    I've concluded that my tube DAC's, although lovely and non fatiguing to listen to (ever!), are missing some detail and clarity compared to the new wave of modern DAC's using newer chips and improved circuitry. I like switching between the two still as the enveloping, holographic effect of the tube output in my other DAC's is addictive.

    However, considering the price differential between them and the E30, the performance of the E30 is genuinely unbeatable in my opinion.
    I should add these levels of performance are only achieved using the ifi power supply and with the E30 in DAC only mode. These things do indeed make a noticeable difference.



    Quote Originally Posted by Bonky View Post
    Yes, I too have an iFi on order. It'll be good to get away from having to recharge the external battery and get rid of some more nuisance leads.

    R
    Richard - did you get the supply?

    What are your thoughts on the Topping now?
    System 1: - Amp - Musical Paradise MP-701 - Neurochrome 686
    - Source: Linn LP12 (AT-OC9XEN) - D-Klimo LAR copy - Novafidelity X12 - Musical Paradise MP-D1 mkII -
    - Speakers: Cambridge Acoustic "Grand Master Evolution" Subs: - REL T3's -

    System 2 - Amp: Marantz 1060
    - Source: Audio Technica LP5 - EAR834p clone - Pioneer N-30K - Musical Paradise MP-D1 -
    - Speakers: Loth X BS1's - Sub: REL T3 -

    System 3: - Amp: Custom N-core 300B SEP -
    - Source: Cambridge Audio Stream Magic 6 - Topping E30 -
    - Speakers: Quad 63's -

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