So what is your HiFi story and views, has your journey been worth is?

[AJSki2fly]

An earlier thread today prompted me into considering my own particular journey back into hifi over the last 5 years, and I thought it would be interesting to share it as honestly as I can. Also and opportunity for other s to offer views, opinions and experiences of their own.

So here goes.....


I have been round the hifi merry-go-round several times, multiple speakers, amplifiers, several CDP's, 5 Turntables, and a variety of other gear, and all in the last 5 years. Before this I have had at least what could be considered four very nice hifi systems that sounded very good, and then for 10 years I became completely disillusioned with it all and stopped listening to music except for casual listening.

At several points in the last 5 years I have been pretty satisfied with the overall system sound and yet I have allowed myself to get suckered into changing a major component, only because I have been lead to believe by a dealer or a magazine review that I can improve on what I have or something I have is inferior in some way, generally as I now realise IMO this is a complete load of tosh. This has usually resulted in a higher financial spend and a leap of audio faith. In one case a well known TT turned out to be a particular disappointment sonically and the more I delved into why the more disillusioned I became with it, and I finally realised that there is a load of hype and crap out their surrounding HiFi products just trying to sucker Joe Public into get his/her wallet out.

Before you all shout at me yes I know and accept my system is not exactly cheap if it was purchased new off the shelf, but it is not into the higher echelons of Audiophile gear costing tens of thousands. What I have now is as a result of purchasing previously used along with a mix of new, and ex-demo, and a couple of very luck part exchanges. My last and most recent change was the loudspeakers, which was more to appease my better half as the previous speakers were rather large in the lounge, something that even I had to admit to, so this change was more cosmetic rather than on audio grounds. My last TT change was an attempt to get as good a sound as possible for a sensible amount of cost without personally shelling out, I achieved this by selling my previous TT and Arm and selling some other gear, and has been a success IMO.

So looking back at my recent hifi journey over the last 5 years and trying to be as honest as possible I would make these observations.

I definitely got suckered into buying a TT on its perceived popularity and longevity in the market, I assumed it had to be good, a big mistake.

I had a rather expensive arm, which was very good, but actually as I found out there was just as good for a 1/3 the price, luckily I got my money back on the original arm.

I originally had a vey nice Meridian 557 amp and used it with a Tisbury passive amp(£140), all these owed me together was just £690, and it actually they sounded superb. I heard my friends valve set up and thought that was for me, well the answer was yes and no. I purchased a pair of previously used 300B valve mono blocks for nearly 5 times the cost of the 557 and Tisbury, they sounded lovely but actually turned out to be unreliable due to capacitor age, very disappointing. So I shelled out on a new 300B amp the same as my friends that cost nearly 10 times my Meridian 557, does it sound any better than the Meridian actually, a difficult question but probably, even my best friend with the 300B thought that the Meridian/Tisbury set up sounded great. Thinking about it I could have spent just £300-400 on the main caps on the 557 and a couple of other upgrades and made it even better. By the way the same friend lent me a Vincent integrated amp (£2.2K new) to tied me over whilst I waited for the new 300B amp, this was actually extremely good and I could have kept it for just £1.1K and was probably as good as the 557.

Now we come to speakers:- I went from Dali Ikons 6's to Wilson Benesch ARC's(ex-demos), a general improvement and not too costly for me. But I felt the bass of the ARCS's was a little lacking unless played at higher volumes. So onto a pair of Impulse H2's, great bass but I had lost some mid-range smoothness. Initially I kept the ARC's as I was not sure about parting with them. You see even I was confused by what I was hearing. Then onto a pair of Vienna Acoustic Mozart SE's from the same friend, I just broke even on this selling the H2's on, result was better mids and top, and the bass was somewhere in between the H2s and ARC's, and the wife was much happier with the smaller footprint and aesthetics. Now do not misunderstand me some of the changes between the speakers were subjectively quite subtle, certainly for others listening to the system, not like being hit in the face with a wet kipper. What I am saying here is that I was was being critical rather than listening to the music. Then along came a pair of Tannoy Legacy Ardens(ex-demos) so I traded the Mozarts, and some other unused gear and only had to outlay a few hundred ponds, a good deal. This was an improvement in what can only be described as a more natural sounding presentation overall. But as already said these went for a more sensible sized speaker that could still deliver sonically and I knew would meet my expectations. So I now have the Wilson Benesch Vectors, and these definitely hit the spot for me, very musical and detailed, the bass goes surprisingly low and is very controlled, and they look good in the room. Would I go back to the Ardens, yes but only if I have a room at least 50 larger or I lived on my own.

Cartridges:-
Well I now own 5, and have a stylus loan that fits the Ortofon OM. An Ortofon OM(MM) with DN165E stylus (£70), the loaned Ortofon 40 stylus, an Ortofon Rondo Blue(MC) (£600 in its days), a Goldring 2500 (MI) (£400), Michell Cusis(MC) a re-bodied Benz Micro Wood S(£1100) and finally a Benz Micro LP-S(MC) (£2.8-3.2K).
Some may know that I recently experimented with MM cartridges and this resulted in me purchasing the Goldring 2500, the reason is it actually produces about 95-98% of the detail and musical/sound experience that the LP-S does and is easily a match for the Michell Cusis. In fact I would say that on some records which are not that well recorded or produced in the first place that it is irrelevant which cartridge you listen with. The Ortofon OM with DN165E is actually a pretty good performer, missing some detail bu quite acceptable for a casual listen. The Ortofon OM with the 40 stylus is actually very good and gives a very good experience, the Goldring 2500 just pips it on detail and bass, but maybe that is just my preference.

Turntables:

These in my experience very tricky, my advice is ignore how it looks, go on how it sounds. I used to have a Pro-Ject Experience II (about £1K) which actually sounded great with the Rondo Blue, and in fact looking back at it now a Gyrodec with SME arm and £1K MC cartridge was probably only a 5-10% better but cost 4 times the Pro-Ject. However an older Voyd with a Jelco TK-850M 10″ Tonearm and the same cartridge sounded much more musical and was a pleasure to listen to and was less than half the cost of the Gyrodec/SME combo IMHO. For me the best affordable solution I have found is the Pro-Ject Signature 10, I think this is for several reasons, it has a very high mass platter, a excellent bearing and as a result is very stable. Also it has a Signature designed arm specifically for it, and the combination works very well, giving great detail, musicality and soundstage. I think similar well made high mass platter turntables with a quality arm like a Jelco would work well as well. If you are into vinyl and want great resolution and musicality then spending £3-4k is probably justifiable if you can afford it, but I still think that you can get great results for sub £1k.

So what is the point of my ramblings, well mainly to try and point out that I have formed the opinion that spending lots of hard earned dosh on hifi will not necessarily get you a system that sounds good for you or your room. As can be seen from my experiences I probably could have spent at least half of what I have and ended up with a lovely sounding system. One thing though that I am now convinced about is with respect to speakers. Finding a loudspeaker that suits you and your room is one of the most important things in the system, the other is that they work with your amplifier. I think if you get the speakers right then you are well on they way, there are a lot of very good amps out there and you do not have to spend huge sums to get a very good sounding one, I believe the Quad Vena II would be a very good example of this, and as I found with the older Meridian 557 and the Vincent SV-234 (£2K new), and I am sure there must be lots of other sub £2k amps just as good or even sub £1K for that matter.

In my opinion and experience cartridges are a minefield, I am no longer convinced that vast amounts on expensive ones what ever they may be is actually worth it. Yes I do accept that some very expensive ones get more detail but how much and what will actually experience and hear on your system is questionable. I suppose if you are cash rich then it does not really matter, but most of us aren't.

I have not mentioned CDP's, well yes I have had several and used to swear by 20 year old Meridian 508, and probably would still if pushed. However I think you can get very good if not better results with a reasonably priced DAC and sensibly priced CDP used as a transport. In my case I now use a Beresford Caiman SEG DAC, for its £300 or so outlay with good PSU it is a no brainer, you could easily pay 3 or 4 times that to get anything better, and I use a good Sony Blu-ray player as a transport, and it sounds as good as the Meridian CDP, although I am sure this could be improved upon but I hardly ever listen to CD's nowadays.



Thinking about it most hifi systems set ups, (separates that is) are likely to be pretty unique, i.e not many people will have that exact combination, secondly it will definitely be unique in a specific listening environment, and thirdly and most important it sounds as good as it does to the listeners ears and brain. So if you like how your system sounds stick with it.

[RobbieGong]

Respect for the Thread Adrian.

We used to get posts like this a while back and they are always welcome in my book.

Makes for a long post, but thanks for the share.

Been into music and hifi as long as I can remember. My passion and love for music brought me to hifi, they went hand in hand for me and I always got a buzz whenever i saw a set-up/system.

Any opportunity to visit a hifi store was taken, Comet, Superfi - Leeds back in the '70's and then the West End when I hit London in '81.

I always had whatever I could afford, even when I was at home and what ever set up I had brought me untold joy - it's the music !

I promised myself, when my wife and i got our first house together 20 years ago this year, that I'd have a space for a decent system, so I guess that's when it started in the true sense of hifi - that all consuming intent and desire to build the best system I could, fettling, fiddling, changing, upgrading and all that goes with it.

From that point I got into the idea of forums, informing myself about components and so on.

I wont go through the whole what I've had thing but the Technics SL1210 MK5G I purchased new took me on a long upgrade path and a lot of spending until I took it as far as I could or even wanted to, to be honest.

I learned a lot about hifi going on that journey, so very glad I did, in that regard, doing that and being here has been invaluable.

The Ortofon 2M Black was an eye-opener too. My first experience of a stellar/top quality cart and what they bring to the hi-fidelity arena, including the all important criticality of tonearm/cartridge/stylus set up, especially so when it comes to using the more sophisticated stylus profiles - priceless learning.

Only tried a few speakers, including B&W CM7, but the one that i regard as a stone cold bargain to this day and an excellent floor-stander is the Mission 752 Freedom, was smitten from first listen.

I had those for years and it was hard to let them go, but I did in the end after plenty of informing myself, for the Spendor D7, which are an excellent speaker, so much so that I will at some point upgrade to the new/revised D7.2 - More selling, more saving.......

I also have a passion for high end / big Japanese amps, so been on a journey with a few nice ones there, which led me to the Sansui's, my amp of choice.

I found the Sansui AU 919 to be another revelation in terms of what a properly designed, quality integrated can do, which led me to my current Sansui Alpha AU a707DR - effortless, balanced sound, just gets out of the way and lets the music through, unhindered.

I always felt that a good cdp should take pride of place on the rack, to finish things off nicely. After much of the usual, informing etc it had to be the Pioneer PD91, for looks and from what I'd read, great 'analogue' presentation.

When I finally got to giving it some proper time, years after purchase, it gave me the best two weeks or so of music, I'd ever heard from a cdp and then it went from sounding fab to sounding wring, without any warning. I believe the laser has died and that's the risk with vintage, no matter how good.

Thankfully, My current and recently acquired Technics SP10 MKII is doing the business, thrilling me no end with the Cadenza Black-Fritz Gyger S re-tip - Serious hi-fidelity, no gloss-over just forensic vinyl replay, warts an all, just as I always intended, worked to and hoped.

There's been a lot of pain on the journey, downtime, waiting time, money spent, without going into the half. My advise to anyone just getting into this thing is if you haven't got patience but really want to be in the getting to where you want to get, for the long haul then you'd better find some or just keep things very simple ie: buy a few fairly informed pieces and leave it a that. Really getting into this, isnt for everyone, so look before you leap....

Any regrets - no! Simply because I wouldn't know what I've learned if hadn't have taken the journey I have. I got there in the end, Twas the smooth roads, rough roads, twists and turns that got me there and currently - the best system and SQ I could have ever hoped for, it's a joy and happy days !

[Macca]

Good thread , we've not had one like this in a long while. other peoples journeys are always fascinating. Those 'reader's systems' articles in the mags were always popular I remember, but they stopped them as they were wasting print space that didn't help sell new product.

I've had that much kit over the last 30 years I could probably write a book but got to start work in a bit so I won't.

Stand out lessons - we are not all chasing the same sound. So may times been with others listening to systems I thought were magnificent when they said 'No, not keen on it at all.' And systems I thought were terrible which others loved. So other people's recommendations on what to get are nothing to go by. Especially hi-fi journalists and people who work in the trade. Too often they can't see the woods for the trees.

A rookie mistake is to blame the speakers for a bad sound. There are some rubbish speakers out there but they are fairly few nowadays. Unless the room is not a good match then if there is a problem it is rarely the fault of the loudspeaker. People underestimate how much difference the amplification can make. Likewise with phono stages. Vinyl replay is so easy to get wrong, it has so many variables, so it is hard to know which element is at fault.

I like to buy used kit just to try it out. I'm lucky that I don't have to sell it again to try something else so can always go back to what worked for me when the new thing doesn't so I don't need to be that careful and I can try stuff just for a laugh or out of curiosity. It's a scattergun approach but as Robbie said above, that's how you get experience and start being able to make more informed decisions.

[AJSki2fly]

Hi Robbie

Yes I remember hearing a pair of Mission 752 Freedom, a very good speaker and not too pricey if I recall correctly. I heard the Sansui AU919 when a friend was audition a large number of amps on his upgrade path, I really liked it, in fact most of the Sansui gear I have heard has generally been pretty good. At the moment I am using a Sansui TU-S7 Tuner which is pretty good, but looking for an even more sensitive FM tuner, which I may have found, the Sansui is very good but I live in a weak signal area one the edge of a major transmitter area, most frustrating.

When I went through my TT debacle I very nearly went for a Technics SP10 MKII, I just could not find one in the condition/price I was happy with, and then the Pro-Ject Signature 10 came along at a good price.

I looked up your Sansui Alpha AU a707DR and when I saw it I remembered the alpha series, a highly respected amp at the time and still is, and they still command quite high prices which just confirms how good they are.

Like you I have been quite frustrated at times trying to get to a happy sound feeling, and I definitely had made some bad choices, and sometimes listened to others when I really should have listened to my ears.

Looking at your setup I bet it sounds really good and really up there on the SQ front, what is impressive IMO is it probably was/is very good VFM.

Happy listening,

Adrian

[AJSki2fly]

Good thread , we've not had one like this in a long while. other peoples journeys are always fascinating. Those 'reader's systems' articles in the mags were always popular I remember, but they stopped them as they were wasting print space that didn't help sell new product.

..............

Stand out lessons - we are not all chasing the same sound. So may times been with others listening to systems I thought were magnificent when they said 'No, not keen on it at all.' And systems I thought were terrible which others loved. So other people's recommendations on what to get are nothing to go by. Especially hi-fi journalists and people who work in the trade. Too often they can't see the woods for the trees.

.............

Thanks Martin, I was/am hoping people will chip in with their thoughts and journey in HiFi, I find hearing what others have done and why interesting, it does not matter at what level or cost as IMO they are good and bad at all levels of HiFi. As most know there are some real gems and some real bummers out their, so sharing our experience may save others from the bummers.

Completely agree, our ears and brains are all different to a certain extent, and we listen and prefer different types of music which can affect whats sort of system is best for one and not another, "One size doesn't necessarily fit all". As for Hi-Fi reviews and journalist reports, yes I read them but I am pretty cautious, I rarely ever see a review with less than 4 out 5 stars, certainly nowadays, that has to tell you something. Unless I can back a review up with something independently then I tend to air on caution, after all most journalists get paid in some way for what they write. Having said that I recently took a risk on the newly out KLH headphones based on a couple reviews in mags, and they are pretty true to what was written.

Martin's HiFi Book might be very interesting, even the abridged version, so why not share it with us.

Cheers

Adrian

[chris@panteg]

With my current system, I've tried to replicate or even improve on what I had 20 years ago but in a more compact set up.
My old system was a Voyd. 5 reference SME 310 music maker, with Concordant Excelsior two box valve pre, and a Marantz cd player.
With 2nd Audio monos with two border patrol psu's and snell type J.

But it was just too many boxes, took up too much space.

My current setup of Voyd /SMEV AT33EV Puresound T10 /P10 Marantz cd player and Puresound 2a3 amplifier into living voice avatars is the set up I've had in mind for the last ten years and it's much more compact and sonically I feel is superior to my old system, though in the last decade I've improved my electrics with an up to date consumer unit and improved earthing, so that possibly has made a big difference.

All in all very happy but still fancy a border patrol 300b se but showing some restraint, I don't need to go so far as I'd need a top notch line level pre as well.

[Macca]

Martin's HiFi Book might be very interesting, even the abridged version, so why not share it with us.

Cheers

Adrian

Well I started out with a mono 'Murphy' cassette recorder which belonged to my mother. She was a music teacher but there was no other hi-fi in the house.
When I was about 15 she lost a gold necklace and with the insurance money bought a Saisho music centre from Dixons. Turntable, tuner and double tape deck. So I started buying LPs.

At 16 I was around at a mate's house and his old man had a JVC-JBL system, JBL L100 Century speakers on the little stands. He played us 'Brothers In Arms' album that had just come out and which I had already played to death on the Saisho. My god the difference was just unbelievable! I decided I wanted to hear my music sound that good too. That was the start of it. Little did I know.

I had a Saturday job stacking shelves at Gateway. Tenner a day for a nine hour shift. Started saving up. 17 weeks later had enough to buy an Aiwa midi system. It wasn't much but it was better than the Saisho. Then discovered Richer Sounds who at the time sold all the bin-end Jap electronics.

Was now at college and back then you could sign on over the summer. Went to Richer and spent my dole money on my first separates system. It was better than the Aiwa but still not a patch on the JVC-JBL set up. This was about the point where I realised I wasn't going to be easily satisfied.

Started buying hi-fi mags. Probably a mistake. A bit like going to a strip joint, no point looking at what you can't have, it only makes it worse. After some running about after college eventually found myself on the dole, so started buying and selling equipment and had a lot of 1970s kit come and go, too much to list it all even if I remembered it. No internet then, not much money so had to take what I could get. The quality of that JBL-JVC system still a pipe dream.

Got a job in a warehouse, hard work but paid quite well. Moved up to Systemdeck IIX, Nagaoka MP30, Denon PMA250, Wharfedale CRS3 speakers. Finally had a system that actually sounded pretty good.

Got into designing and building speakers. Then the Denon amp died, the Nag got worn out, ended up back at square one again. Went through some dreadful tat and a lot of house moves in quick succession. Bought a house, made sure it had a good room for hi-fi, started again with Cambridge P70, Systemdeck, Goldring Eroica, little Mission speakers and a sub.

Bought a CD player! Speakers not big enough for room. Got B&W 601 which had just come out. Still not big enough. Got Celestion A2 speakers in a fire sale. Big enough! But amp could not drive them. Bought a big Rotel. That could not drive them. Due to this I started to learn how hi-fi actually worked - a revelation. Bought Linn Pre-power, that could drive them. settled with that for about 8 years. Still not as good as the JVC-JBL.

Discovered hi-fi forums, started buying kit almost at random, just as a hobby. Amassed piles of the stuff. Tried valves. Tried idiotic tweaks. Tried everything. Got into passive pre-amps, realised CD was a lot better than I'd thought. Started buying lots of CD players. Started trying to get vinyl to sound like that. Got a Technics Sl1200. Then got another one.

Bought lots of vintage speakers, Celestion, IMF, B&O, Akai etc. Got bored with them, thought I'd buy something more modern, got Focal/JM Lab speakers. Another revelation!

Bought a Krell KSA50s on a whim, had no idea what it would be like. My god it was excellent. Added DCB1 pre-amp - now, finally, after 30 years, I had something even better than I recall the JVC-JBL system being! Done. Finished. Finito. Then the Krell died. And so we go on....

[Opti-cal]

Love that concise writing style there Martin. Interesting stuff too.

Thanks for that. Also Robbie, Adrian and Chris, good reads too.

I'll get around to my "story" soon I hope. Albeit likely less interesting, containing less kit and useful information in general but will be much more wordy and convoluted.

Yes I know what the people want . . .

[dreamer69]

Great read. Do I take it that the Gyrodec was the turntable you were referring to? And the Goldring 2500 is a new one on me. Is it really that good?

[Pigmy Pony]

Ok here goes, and I should warn you it won't be very interesting, nor educational except perhaps as a cautionary tale...

1971: given an old radio! The Tams, The Faces, Middle of the Road, all in glorious tinny mono

Christmas 1972: My first record player! Fidelity HF43. I started out with two albums to play on it: "Electric Warrior" and "School's Out". But if you listened carefully it also picked up chat from passing taxis.

1974: Called at my new best mate's house, where his older brother was playing "Ummagumma" through an ERA turntable, Trio amp and Dynaco speakers. So this is how it should sound! "Hifi" bug had bitten.

Christmas 1974: My parents gave me a choice of either driving lessons or a stereo. So they bought me a BSR MP60 deck, a Bush Arena amp and some Wharfedale Denton speakers. Played "Echoes", and a couple of minutes in the bass started. "Where on earth did that come from?" Welcome to the wonderful world of bass!

1978: Upgraded the amp. For eight weeks I gave ther nice man at RSC a tenner, then the half price Rotel RA712 was mine. It kept me happy for a good 7 years, and even forgave me when I accidentally vomited a chicken curry/Toby Light cocktail all over it. Wish I still had that old thing.

1980: gave a tenner plus my Dentons for a pair of Marantz 4G speakers, with foam grilles that looked like bars of chocolate. Unfortunately an impromptu party (I blame my parents for going away for the weekend) saw the demise (almost) of both bass cones. They stayed like that, held together with duct tape for about four years, a testament to my engineering skills and attention to detail.

!982: The year before I got married. I went ito town with £300 to buy an engagement ring, came back with a £200 ring and a JVC cassette deck. I was seduced by the flashy meters.

1984: Seduced by the "Giant Killer" blurb on the Cyrus 1 amp. It was a nice wee thing and had more clout than you'd think, and certainly more clout than my Marantz speakers with the duct tape cones wanted. So upgraded to a pair of AR 48LS speakers. Propa bass!

1984 (still): On a roll now, went and bought a Mission 774/775 LC deck. Surprisingly much better than the BSR. No really it was. By then I was buying Hifi mags, and fell for the hype. So I put a want ad in "Hifi Answers" for an LP12. Some guy in London said he had one, with Grace arm and MP11 Boron cartridge for £300. My car at the time, a MK 2 1.1L Escort wasn't up to the 450 mile round trip. so a friend drove me there in his Cal-Look Beetle.

When I got back, fist thing wifie said was "Oh a bloke in Lostock Hall has one for £300". Four bloody miles away! No mobile phones in those days. Sounded great though, and to this day probably the biggest improvement form a single component.

1987: Monitor Audio MA352 speakers. A bit less bass, but lovely sweet sound. Could listen all day Happy bunny for next 7 years.

1994: In the midst of my ravey period, and wanted a sound that the neighbours could enjoy. So got some Prodigy-friendly B&W DM603s. Had some clout, but lost the sweetness somewhat. but who cares, it's all good when you're off yer face

1996: An upgrade to a Musical Fidelity Electra E100 gave the B&Ws something to chew on.

Nothing of note for about 15 years, while motorbikes took centre-stage, until

2012: When I got my current stuff, all of which I've bored you with before. Besides, my two typing fingers are getting sore. So I'll leave it at that for now.