An experiment in amplification

[Gazjam]

Good thread.

Been curious about power amps since selling on my 300B SET and I looked at the Crown amps.
On a YouTube Audio channel I follow, the guy there gives his thoughts on the current Crown Class D amps.
He really likes them.

[Ali Tait]

Now then Dennis, a very interesting point and one I have addressed before. How do you define accurate when your music is synthesised and electronic..?

Your point is I think that both apply. The valve amp has the most wonderful vocal sound but is, I think, totally inaccurate. There is a sense of realism that is almost breathtaking but little or no ultra low frequencies so crucial for electronic music. The Class D amps on the other hand have what appears to be power over the entire frequency spectrum. It is almost as if the valve power is running a band pass filter allowing only midrange sounds to pass. The Crown amps clearly add something to the sound and vocals are not realistic as in the case of the valves but the Crown amps are just so exciting to listen to and clearly include the things that the valve amp struggles with.

Foregoing the accuracy thing though which is more exciting to listen to..? Very obviously the Crown amps. A while ago I was convinced that I had lost my 'connection' with music and mentioned to Sue, my other half that I may sell up the entire music system. The sound was just not as I remembered it. Well it is now. I now have back that sense of connection, the very feeling that music creates in your head. That sort of 'Jesus that was good' kind of feeling.

Is it 'hi-fi'..? I don't give a shit if it is or isn't. Hi-Fi suggests a connection with reality..? What is the reality of synthesised music being put through a hulking great PA system because without the PA system there would be no sound at all. So, flat, undynamic sound or fast paced OMG listen to that type of sound..?

I gave up on the one-up-man-ship of hi-fi years ago but really did love the valve sound. I think I tired of that sound without even realising it. Something has changed and I think it is me.

The solution would appear to be to run speakers actively, use a nice valve amp for mids and top, and a Class D amp for the bass. That's how my Bastanis are designed to be driven.

[Haselsh1]

The solution would appear to be to run speakers actively, use a nice valve amp for mids and top, and a Class D amp for the bass. That's how my Bastanis are designed to be driven.

Ali, the best system I have ever heard was back around 1983 and was active. Although it didn't use any valve devices it was incredible. Mission speakers and active crossovers with amplification by Crimson Electric. I think that the speakers were 720's but it was a long time ago.

[Pharos]

Now then Dennis, a very interesting point and one I have addressed before. How do you define accurate when your music is synthesised and electronic..?

Your point is I think that both apply. The valve amp has the most wonderful vocal sound but is, I think, totally inaccurate. There is a sense of realism that is almost breathtaking but little or no ultra low frequencies so crucial for electronic music. The Class D amps on the other hand have what appears to be power over the entire frequency spectrum. It is almost as if the valve power is running a band pass filter allowing only midrange sounds to pass. The Crown amps clearly add something to the sound and vocals are not realistic as in the case of the valves but the Crown amps are just so exciting to listen to and clearly include the things that the valve amp struggles with.

Foregoing the accuracy thing though which is more exciting to listen to..? Very obviously the Crown amps. A while ago I was convinced that I had lost my 'connection' with music and mentioned to Sue, my other half that I may sell up the entire music system. The sound was just not as I remembered it. Well it is now. I now have back that sense of connection, the very feeling that music creates in your head. That sort of 'Jesus that was good' kind of feeling.

Is it 'hi-fi'..? I don't give a shit if it is or isn't. Hi-Fi suggests a connection with reality..? What is the reality of synthesised music being put through a hulking great PA system because without the PA system there would be no sound at all. So, flat, undynamic sound or fast paced OMG listen to that type of sound..?

I gave up on the one-up-man-ship of hi-fi years ago but really did love the valve sound. I think I tired of that sound without even realising it. Something has changed and I think it is me.

Yes an end to pissing contests, not only in Hi-Fi, but many other areas for us all I hope.

On reflection, for me the excitement has been in a sense of discovery which includes the nature of the art in both words and music. At the time of major movement in Hi-Fi, maybe 45 years ago we could upgrade the system and hear more of the art, but that has diminished now because of the gradual progress, but we do get slight accentuations with changes of gear.

There have ben times when I have thought, even recently, that I would get rid of it all because I do not get the really major 'buzzes' of breakthroughs which I had all those years ago, but, I have grown psychologically and emotionally, and learnt a great deal in that period, and so those epiphanies are far less frequent.

Now I'm in much more of a 'monitoring' state of mind, observing what has been done, and comparing artists, and this may seem to be not a pleasure, but that applies to much of adult life IMO, wisdom allows us to 'step back' and think a little.

I am aspiring to write my own stuff, and my music collection is almost entirely of my own historic past, that of previously impacting music which has effected my development, and nothing much captures or enraptures me now.

This applies to much of life; perhaps your first fresh wild strawberry, of your first curry, or first wholemeal organic cake after years of processed rubbish. Your first car which was not a constant process of maintenance to keep going.

Major recent understandings in how music works in our psychology has changed my relation with it, but it is still a wonderful medium.

[Haselsh1]

It was my intention to re-valve the PrimaLuna with KT120's but obviously I went in the opposite direction. At the moment, a week or so later, I am still OK with my decision.

[Haselsh1]

Dennis, I have to say that it has all caught up with me also. Motorcycles used to completely overpower me with their drama but now leave me absolutely cold. The new stuff is nothing more than sanitised blandness. Photography is the same unless you still chase silver halide/film technology. Cars..? The same also. Sanitised blandness. There is of course the possibility that I am just getting old.

[Ali Tait]

Ali, the best system I have ever heard was back around 1983 and was active. Although it didn't use any valve devices it was incredible. Mission speakers and active crossovers with amplification by Crimson Electric. I think that the speakers were 720's but it was a long time ago.

Well I certainly like what the Bastanis do. I’m using an OTL for the mid and top (200hz and up), and a 3000w Behringer on the 18” bass driver (200hz and down). Gives the best of both worlds to my ears. Huge slam if it’s there in the music, but with all the soundstaging and delicacy an OTL can bring to the party.

[paulf-2007]

Well that made a nice change to read a thread not filled with pretentious bullshit. Agreed with most of it but not all, but don't ask me what I didn't agree with because the old senior citizen problem of not remembering something I read five minutes ago has kicked in.

[Pharos]

Dennis, I have to say that it has all caught up with me also. Motorcycles used to completely overpower me with their drama but now leave me absolutely cold. The new stuff is nothing more than sanitised blandness. Photography is the same unless you still chase silver halide/film technology. Cars..? The same also. Sanitised blandness. There is of course the possibility that I am just getting old.

I'm not sure what you mean by "it has all caught up with me".

I alluded to changes in my outlook, but you seem to infer some sort of correction to an earlier wrong path.
I made mistakes in my life path, juvenile delinquent, neglecting studies, pot and the hippie movement, but that latter had some validity to its protesting and complaints, they now the preoccupations in society at large.

I too had a series of bikes, after teen years of cycle racing. A Triumph Daytona 100, chopped, and later two large BMWs in the 80s, my being a romantic and loving the speed and acceleration. But now that I can afford whatever I want, it has lost its appeal, partly because I do not have the need to get away from central London to the coast, where I now live.

Blandness does seem to be conveyed by technological improvement, the BMs were very fast quiet and efficient, and the earlier Triumph very noisy and the fuel tank would come off because of the vibration, and it always leaked oil, even after new seals.

Perhaps blandness is the achievement of objectivity, the removal of all the irrelevant, (noise).

Blandness in cars, yes, especially the 20 or so SUVs competitively trying to corner the market, and designed to seduce the narcissism of the populace; they spend thousands on the 3D form.

Yes I am getting old, but it is important to differentiate between age and maturity. If I now buy the latest BM, capable of 199mph, where can I use it's capability, and what if I drop a 550lb bike on my hips at my age?

With my equipment now I am in analytical mode, hearing faults in recording that have never appeared before, and this is not conducive to a sense of pleasurable indulgence, but of facing the realities of life, and it is only in so doing that we can be effective. Richness in life I must find not in passive receptivity, but elsewhere, creativity.

I also think that we have these 'perfect moments', times of great pleasure, usually in Hi-0Fi when the sound is the best we've heard, especially considering what we listened to as a child. As the equipment improves that has to diminish, and we have progressed in our discrimination by learning.

I've just remembered how in my apprenticeship a friend bought an 850 mini-van and tuned it to stage 3+ with 5j Cinturatos, and how we did about 110 with four of us in it, the speedo reading right around the clock to the 'E' part of the fuel gauge. We were all doing this stuff.

[Haselsh1]

I guess I have become disillusioned with irrelevant bullshit. Back in 1979 when I first became involved with hi-fi (as opposed to music) I was very quickly brainwashed by the Linn/Naim bullshit of the time. The bullshit followed the same old quip that if you didn't have Linn and Naim then you or your hi-fi was immediately inferior. I left that behind during the eighties when I started to listen to stuff that was to me very superior to what I had been told was the best. Later on I discovered valves.

I think that my current state of mind is probably 'disillusioned' and it spreads to most of the things that used to excite me the most. I look upon this new view as a downward step and hope that it doesn't continue though I feel that is unlikely with my newly rediscovered musical state of mind. Yesterday I played 'Big Calm' by Morcheeba on CD. Bloody lovely to hear it sounding so energetic having sounded so dull for so long. A year back whilst driving the Lincolnshire coast on beautiful sunny days I just couldn't understand why Zero 7 and Morcheeba sounded better on the car MP3 player than it did on my hi-fi. I now know why of course. I guess I have just grown wary of the EL34/PrimaLuna sound.

The two Crown amps have injected a huge dose of energy into the way I listen to my music. Yes, I admit that the vocal sound is not as realistic as it was with the EL34's but then I have always pushed for EL34's having an exquisite midrange but I can no longer get along with no ultra low bass and flat dynamics. I guess that along with my old Spendors, the PrimaLuna really does suit simple mainly acoustic music. Isn't that what I realised back in 2004 with an Audion 300B SE amp and Audio Note AZ-2 speakers..?