An experiment in amplification

[Haselsh1]

The solution would appear to be to run speakers actively, use a nice valve amp for mids and top, and a Class D amp for the bass. That's how my Bastanis are designed to be driven.

Ali, the best system I have ever heard was back around 1983 and was active. Although it didn't use any valve devices it was incredible. Mission speakers and active crossovers with amplification by Crimson Electric. I think that the speakers were 720's but it was a long time ago.

[Haselsh1]

It was my intention to re-valve the PrimaLuna with KT120's but obviously I went in the opposite direction. At the moment, a week or so later, I am still OK with my decision.

[Haselsh1]

Dennis, I have to say that it has all caught up with me also. Motorcycles used to completely overpower me with their drama but now leave me absolutely cold. The new stuff is nothing more than sanitised blandness. Photography is the same unless you still chase silver halide/film technology. Cars..? The same also. Sanitised blandness. There is of course the possibility that I am just getting old.

[Pharos]

Dennis, I have to say that it has all caught up with me also. Motorcycles used to completely overpower me with their drama but now leave me absolutely cold. The new stuff is nothing more than sanitised blandness. Photography is the same unless you still chase silver halide/film technology. Cars..? The same also. Sanitised blandness. There is of course the possibility that I am just getting old.

I'm not sure what you mean by "it has all caught up with me".

I alluded to changes in my outlook, but you seem to infer some sort of correction to an earlier wrong path.
I made mistakes in my life path, juvenile delinquent, neglecting studies, pot and the hippie movement, but that latter had some validity to its protesting and complaints, they now the preoccupations in society at large.

I too had a series of bikes, after teen years of cycle racing. A Triumph Daytona 100, chopped, and later two large BMWs in the 80s, my being a romantic and loving the speed and acceleration. But now that I can afford whatever I want, it has lost its appeal, partly because I do not have the need to get away from central London to the coast, where I now live.

Blandness does seem to be conveyed by technological improvement, the BMs were very fast quiet and efficient, and the earlier Triumph very noisy and the fuel tank would come off because of the vibration, and it always leaked oil, even after new seals.

Perhaps blandness is the achievement of objectivity, the removal of all the irrelevant, (noise).

Blandness in cars, yes, especially the 20 or so SUVs competitively trying to corner the market, and designed to seduce the narcissism of the populace; they spend thousands on the 3D form.

Yes I am getting old, but it is important to differentiate between age and maturity. If I now buy the latest BM, capable of 199mph, where can I use it's capability, and what if I drop a 550lb bike on my hips at my age?

With my equipment now I am in analytical mode, hearing faults in recording that have never appeared before, and this is not conducive to a sense of pleasurable indulgence, but of facing the realities of life, and it is only in so doing that we can be effective. Richness in life I must find not in passive receptivity, but elsewhere, creativity.

I also think that we have these 'perfect moments', times of great pleasure, usually in Hi-0Fi when the sound is the best we've heard, especially considering what we listened to as a child. As the equipment improves that has to diminish, and we have progressed in our discrimination by learning.

I've just remembered how in my apprenticeship a friend bought an 850 mini-van and tuned it to stage 3+ with 5j Cinturatos, and how we did about 110 with four of us in it, the speedo reading right around the clock to the 'E' part of the fuel gauge. We were all doing this stuff.

[Haselsh1]

I guess I have become disillusioned with irrelevant bullshit. Back in 1979 when I first became involved with hi-fi (as opposed to music) I was very quickly brainwashed by the Linn/Naim bullshit of the time. The bullshit followed the same old quip that if you didn't have Linn and Naim then you or your hi-fi was immediately inferior. I left that behind during the eighties when I started to listen to stuff that was to me very superior to what I had been told was the best. Later on I discovered valves.

I think that my current state of mind is probably 'disillusioned' and it spreads to most of the things that used to excite me the most. I look upon this new view as a downward step and hope that it doesn't continue though I feel that is unlikely with my newly rediscovered musical state of mind. Yesterday I played 'Big Calm' by Morcheeba on CD. Bloody lovely to hear it sounding so energetic having sounded so dull for so long. A year back whilst driving the Lincolnshire coast on beautiful sunny days I just couldn't understand why Zero 7 and Morcheeba sounded better on the car MP3 player than it did on my hi-fi. I now know why of course. I guess I have just grown wary of the EL34/PrimaLuna sound.

The two Crown amps have injected a huge dose of energy into the way I listen to my music. Yes, I admit that the vocal sound is not as realistic as it was with the EL34's but then I have always pushed for EL34's having an exquisite midrange but I can no longer get along with no ultra low bass and flat dynamics. I guess that along with my old Spendors, the PrimaLuna really does suit simple mainly acoustic music. Isn't that what I realised back in 2004 with an Audion 300B SE amp and Audio Note AZ-2 speakers..?

[Haselsh1]

I'm not sure what you mean by "it has all caught up with me".

Disillusioned.

[alphaGT]

Disillusioned.

I had a very similar experience with amps. I wound up buying some huge Legacy Focus speakers, and my Forte’ Model 3 was not sufficient. A decent enough sounding amp, but the huge 200lb each Legacy’s were dull, lifeless and underpowered.

So I bought a Crown XLS2500, much like yours, and bi-amped my speakers with it, using the Forte’ on the top half. And just like you, I felt an immediate increase in power! And just like you, I felt like it lacked finesse. I ran my stereo for a few years like this, using a Parasound preamp.

These Crown amps are made for P.A. work, and make gobs of power for their size and weight. I wound up buying a second one and use them both for the band I play with. A lot of amp for the money!

After a time I felt like I was missing something. Satisfactory volumes and dynamics are great, but it was lacking, felt boring, while it seemed to sound great, and everyone else on a short listen thought it sounded great, it failed the test. The test of compelling me to listen. When the stereo is right, one album will lead to another and another, and before you know it time has slipped away from you! But I wasn’t doing that. I would play a record or CD or two, and stop. And just like you, I feared it was me! That I had become disinterested. That maybe it sounded fine, and I was just not into it?

So I finally decided to try one last thing, and make sure I wasn’t losing my edge. I spent a load of cash on a used Krell 300 watt amp! And I learned that it was NOT me! The stereo is exciting again! I play it several times a week, and vinyl is exciting again, one album leads to another, and another!

Now, I’m not saying to rush out and buy a Krell, but, seek out an amp that matches your speakers, something that has the wattage of the Crowns, with the finesse of your tubed gear. The Crowns are great in the mean time, but they are not the end all be all amp. They actually work great for sub woofers in an AV setup. Or on stage, and at 12lbs they are easy to haul around. Anyway, rest assured it’s not you, you haven’t changed, only the stereo has changed.

Russell

[Roy S]

I had a very similar experience with amps. I wound up buying some huge Legacy Focus speakers, and my Forte’ Model 3 was not sufficient. A decent enough sounding amp, but the huge 200lb each Legacy’s were dull, lifeless and underpowered.

So I bought a Crown XLS2500, much like yours, and bi-amped my speakers with it, using the Forte’ on the top half. And just like you, I felt an immediate increase in power! And just like you, I felt like it lacked finesse. I ran my stereo for a few years like this, using a Parasound preamp.

These Crown amps are made for P.A. work, and make gobs of power for their size and weight. I wound up buying a second one and use them both for the band I play with. A lot of amp for the money!

After a time I felt like I was missing something. Satisfactory volumes and dynamics are great, but it was lacking, felt boring, while it seemed to sound great, and everyone else on a short listen thought it sounded great, it failed the test. The test of compelling me to listen. When the stereo is right, one album will lead to another and another, and before you know it time has slipped away from you! But I wasn’t doing that. I would play a record or CD or two, and stop. And just like you, I feared it was me! That I had become disinterested. That maybe it sounded fine, and I was just not into it?

So I finally decided to try one last thing, and make sure I wasn’t losing my edge. I spent a load of cash on a used Krell 300 watt amp! And I learned that it was NOT me! The stereo is exciting again! I play it several times a week, and vinyl is exciting again, one album leads to another, and another!

Now, I’m not saying to rush out and buy a Krell, but, seek out an amp that matches your speakers, something that has the wattage of the Crowns, with the finesse of your tubed gear. The Crowns are great in the mean time, but they are not the end all be all amp. They actually work great for sub woofers in an AV setup. Or on stage, and at 12lbs they are easy to haul around. Anyway, rest assured it’s not you, you haven’t changed, only the stereo has changed.

Russell

Kind of echoes what I found with the Crown amps I had (& I ran two in bridged mode, 1000 watts per channel), initially an exciting whilst slightly brash sound but ultimately lacking something.

I'm a few amps down the road now but think I've found a very good 'all round' amp in my Luxman.

[Macca]

Disillusioned.

Look at it another way, you're not disillusioned, you're just more experienced and therefore more demanding of quality than you used to be back in your twenties when the world was young and everything different was a revelation.

I think your comparing average solid state amps with average valve amps and finding it all a bit, well, 'average' only in different ways. There is better out there in both topologies but it needs hunting out, especially if you don't want to pay thousands.

[Haselsh1]

especially if you don't want to pay thousands.

Martin, I already have paid thousands. The preamp was £1,500 new and the power amp was £2,500 new. They only succeeded in making me switch it all off because I preferred the silence to the music. This is now no longer the case.

Are the Crown amps you are all referring to Class D amps or the older style Class AB ?

The only amplifier I have ever owned that had the same kind of awesome bass power as these current amps was back around 1985 and was a Trio Sigma drive amp of around 125 Watts per channel and a big bugger of an amp. It was very powerful in the bass and quite refined to go with it.

Russell, one thing the sound is not is boring. It was, but it isn't anymore and this is not just a function of buying the KEF's as it was exactly the same with the Spendor's.

Sue my other half has a liking for Krell amps but strangely never offers to buy one