Judging a Turntable

[p147]

This is one of the reasons I stick with one manufacturer and same model, As I believe manufactures invest heavily in-house and R&D on their products, Never been keen on mix and match (Which I have done plenty of in the past) for that reason.

[Made in 1968]

I used to have an LP12/Grace G707/Nag MP11 Boron going into an early model Cyrus 1, and this worked very well (to my ears). Then I changed the amp to a Musical Fidelity Electra E100, and found that the SQ of my vinyl had fallen behind CD. Less volume for a given level setting, and rather duller like an invisible treble knob had been turned down a bit. I was playing CDs a lot more at the time so just put up with it.

If I'd bought the components in a different order, ie buying the turntable set up last, It would have sounded woefully lacking compared to my CD player, and may wrongly have been blamed, when in fact it was the amp's crappy phono stage - which is probably what Andre was alluding to in the o/p.

That was a good front end with the Grace.. But thats exactly what is happening. Present amp sound far worse than a CD player. Although i am putting the blame on the new amp Phono stage, The Line Level input aint up to scratch either. I know its no flashy deck, just an early 70's Jap deck but even so i know its sounds better than CD player thru the other amp.

[steve-z]

You don’t have to spend an enormous amount on a phono stage to easily beat the performance of an average integrated amps phono stage, the only exception is if the amp’s manufacturer also makes turntables and cartridges, i.e. Rega, the phono stage in my Brio is excellent, have to admit I only auditioned it briefly with my second string deck an ATLP5 with Goldring E3 when I first got the amp as my Planar 3 in the main system has an ATF7 moving coil on it, although I’m considering an SUT or head amp so I can make use of the Brios phono stage.


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[enrae8]

Planar 3 in the main system has an ATF7 moving coil on it
A very much underrated Cart the ATF7 - very reasonable price great VFM - I had one long ago really enjoyed it
Sorry for being off topic

[antonio]

How many of you Judged or even dismissed a Turntable by the Amp you are using, blaming the Turntable when its actually the amp which is the issue ? for instance My Turntable sounds a bit dull with the latest amp i bought yet sounds great with the old one. So easy to flog a deck over a silly over sight, Ive have done this a lot in the past but learned, to try a few different amps instead of being hasty.. But a lot of people only have one amp.

Never. What amps are you using and do you have a separate phono stage? Surely if on amp sounds off with the tt, it must sound off with other sources. I am of course assuming the tt is set up correctly.

[Made in 1968]

lol no its not set up correctly thats why it sounds good on one Amp.. Please read the thread. ofc its a British amp that sounds a bit cack. Should have realised that from the start.

[CageyH]

How many of you Judged or even dismissed a Turntable by the Amp you are using, blaming the Turntable when its actually the amp which is the issue ? for instance My Turntable sounds a bit dull with the latest amp i bought yet sounds great with the old one. So easy to flog a deck over a silly over sight, Ive have done this a lot in the past but learned, to try a few different amps instead of being hasty.. But a lot of people only have one amp.

Not me. I bought a decent phono stage when I bought my turntable. I probably have more available than most, as I run a loan scheme for a British HiFi manufacturer here in Europe.

[AJSki2fly]

I was wondering the same recently, having bought a new to me 401, then went back to my NAS TT, changed tonearms, hard to judge. It takes extensive listening and changing around, a bit of a pita to be honest. Will be getting a valve amp tomorrow as well, has its own phono stage, but I think I do like my Graham slee era v, so that might stay, shame, would be nice to go down to one box amp wise. I currently use my NAS TT the most, haven't really gotten around to giving the idler a good try out, and I think I'm starting to get a bit tired of the NAS presentation, I'm guessing its the big heavy platter that gives it a slightly hard hefty sound, not sure though, I do wonder what gives each type of TT its sound, that's before we get onto tonearms. Think I'd like to try an LP12 or Voyd TT one of these days.

On the amp changing the sound quality with the same TT then I think you have highlighted the probable issue Andre was referring to.

I presume, maybe wrongly he was thinking a TT with a MM cartridge or I suppose possibly a MC, where the obvious change would be the onboard phono stage in the amp. From my understanding the quality and capability can vary greatly from different manufacturers so it is understandable that an amp swap may deteriorate the SQ coming from a TT, or possibly improve it. Personally I think the separate phono stage is the best option, as it enables you to swap around amps if that is what you are into and hear the impact. If you like it and the amp has its own phono stage then you can always try the TT through that as well and decide if it is better than with the independent phono stage.

[Made in 1968]

I think this Topic has gone off a bit.. A bit of a refresh

Amp No.1 - Sounds great with Turntable
Amp No.2 - Sounds dreadfully dull with same turntable

What im saying is if i had Amp No.2 before No.1 i would have judged the Turntable as being crap & sold it on. But because i had amp No.1 first i know full well its the No.2 amp that is the problem not the deck.. What im trying to say is you can easily create the scenario..

[AJSki2fly]

I think this Topic has gone off a bit.. A bit of a refresh

Amp No.1 - Sounds great with Turntable
Amp No.2 - Sounds dreadfully dull with same turntable

What im saying is if i had Amp No.2 before No.1 i would have judged the Turntable as being crap & sold it on. But because i had amp No.1 first i know full well its the No.2 amp that is the problem not the deck.. What im trying to say is you can easily create the scenario..

Yes Andre, I do get that but however you look at it, in your amp 2 (first one owned) scenario (first one owned) it could have been the amp or TT that was the issue. IMO the only way to know is to try the amp with another TT and see if it OK, or still bad, but keeping in mind that if it that works better it just could be the cartridge/phono combination is a better match that with the other TT. Conversely you can then try your amp 1 (2nd amp scenario) with the original TT, and if it is better then you may again just have a better match.

What I was trying to get at is in my experience a simpler way is to try and limit the variables by using a recognised good external phono stage with the TT and then do direct comparisons between the amps to see which works best. If you then try the amps with the TT using their built in phono stages and one sounds crap then you know it is the inbuilt phone stage that is poor. I think that makes some sort of sense.