Johns Hopkins Medical Centre - World Coronavirus infection Map by Country.

[Macca]

You’re right on your first paragraph.

Gary

I'm probably right on the second one too although I agree there is no absolute certainty. But then we'll happily get on an aeroplane despite there being a very small chance that we'll end up plunging into the Atlantic ocean in a ball of flames.

[Pigmy Pony]

Well, what was that belief based upon: what you were told by the government and/or mainstream media, heard from Davey down the road, or what? I'm being a little facetious, of course, but it does show that you can't rely on getting the truth from supposedly 'trustworthy' sources, thus be easily misled.

Perhaps, if you'd researched 'opinions based on "information" gleaned from the various corners of the Web', much sourced from medical and scientific professionals, you'd have got closer to the truth?

That said, I fully appreciate and understand the decision you made, and I also believe that vaccination does prevent transmission of the virus to a degree, *but*, medically, it has always been, first and foremost, about protecting YOU.

Marco.

The time you've spent researching opinion from "medical and scientific professionals" (your words), time which could be spent playing records/your harp/Monopoly/whatever, may not have brought you any closer to the truth. We just don't know.

Which I reiterate is why I have so little to do with this thread.

Of course I always knew that the main thing about the vaccine was self-protection, I'm not that thick, I'll just repeat that I thought I was also protecting my nearest and dearest. I suppose if as a result of the jab I may avoid hospitalisation, I will be protecting the NHS and other patients from my Covid presence, so that would be something

[Macca]

Nice to know (providing the source is truthful), but what about demographics? There is some feeling that younger/fitter individuals need not concern themselves so much.

That does seem to be true. This is 2020 data for New York but does show a massive increase in risk once you are over 45, especially if you have underlying conditions like heart problems or diabetes https://www.worldometers.info/corona...-demographics/

[Marco]

Source is Public Health England as of August 2021. If course if you're going to doubt any data presented then there's no point discussing it further. But based on that data an unvaccinated person is roughly 3 times more likely to end up in hospital than someone who has been vaccinated.

I wouldn't necessarily dispute that data, but all you're doing is proving that the vaccines are primarily designed to protect YOU, which we already know.

The data I'd like to see, however, is on how much is transmission of the virus to others prevented by vaccination, and I'd want to see accurate and reliable sources for such, from our experts and authorities, not simply 'informed guesstimates', such as I've only seen so far.

After all, it's a key figure, and if properly understood would put a lot of things into focus, including how we limit transmission going forward.

Marco.

[Macca]

I wouldn't necessarily dispute that data, but all you're doing is proving that the vaccines are primarily designed to protect YOU, which we already know.

The data I'd like to see, however, is on how much is transmission of the virus to others prevented by vaccination, and I'd want to see accurate and reliable sources for such, from our experts and authorities, not simply 'informed guesstimates', such as I've only seen so far.

After all, it's a key figure, and if properly understood would put a lot of things into focus, including how we limit transmission going forward.

Marco.

Quite a few studies done on that, they all get similar results, here's one of them https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....14.21264959v1

Effectiveness of full vaccination of the index against transmission to fully vaccinated household contacts was 40% (95% confidence interval (CI) 20-54%), which is in addition to the direct protection of vaccination of contacts against infection. Effectiveness of full vaccination of the index against transmission to unvaccinated household contacts was 63% (95%CI 46-75%). We previously reported effectiveness of 73% (95%CI 65-79%) against transmission to unvaccinated household contacts for the Alpha variant.

So you're less likely to get it in the first place and less likely to pass it on even if you do.

[Pigmy Pony]

Quite a few studies done on that, they all get similar results, here's one of them https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....14.21264959v1

Effectiveness of full vaccination of the index against transmission to fully vaccinated household contacts was 40% (95% confidence interval (CI) 20-54%), which is in addition to the direct protection of vaccination of contacts against infection. Effectiveness of full vaccination of the index against transmission to unvaccinated household contacts was 63% (95%CI 46-75%). We previously reported effectiveness of 73% (95%CI 65-79%) against transmission to unvaccinated household contacts for the Alpha variant.

So you're less likely to get it in the first place and less likely to pass it on even if you do.

So there you go then. Now, what we having for tea?

[Marco]

The time you've spent researching opinion from "medical and scientific professionals" (your words), time which could be spent playing records/your harp/Monopoly/whatever, may not have brought you any closer to the truth. We just don't know.

Well, personally speaking, I don't spend any more time on that than other folks may do watching the evening news, reading papers, or listening to the radio. My view is that with such a serious and important matter, it's good to be as well informed *as possible*, which IME isn't best served by either glibly swallowing what's reported on the mainstream media, government lies, based on their given agenda of the day, or living in 'blissful ignorance'.

Getting closer to the truth, however, most certainly isn't best served by buying your head in the sand and hoping it'll all go away, although I'm not saying you're doing that, or only choosing to believe the stuff that appeases your insecurities and makes you feel comfortable, as often the truth is the polar opposite...

Marco.

[Marco]

Quite a few studies done on that, they all get similar results, here's one of them https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....14.21264959v1

Effectiveness of full vaccination of the index against transmission to fully vaccinated household contacts was 40% (95% confidence interval (CI) 20-54%), which is in addition to the direct protection of vaccination of contacts against infection. Effectiveness of full vaccination of the index against transmission to unvaccinated household contacts was 63% (95%CI 46-75%). We previously reported effectiveness of 73% (95%CI 65-79%) against transmission to unvaccinated household contacts for the Alpha variant.

So you're less likely to get it in the first place and less likely to pass it on even if you do.

Well, like anything else, that's not a 'job done'. I'd need to research how the data was collated, in order to ascertain how reliable the figures were, then form an opinion based on that. Again, I'm not saying you're guilty of this, but too many people simply 'swallow' those types of figures as gospel ['cos it looks kosher, innit?], without recourse to proper scrutiny.

Marco.

[Macca]

Well, like anything else, that's not a 'job done'. I'd need to research how the data was collated and how reliable the source(s) were, then form an opinion based on that. Again, I'm not saying you're guilty of this, but too many people simply 'swallow' those types of figures as gospel ['cos it looks kosher, innit?], without recourse to proper scrutiny.

Marco.

well read the whole paper then, it goes into the methodology in detail. I only quoted a bit from the abstract.

if you google 'vaccine reduced transmission' it brings up a number of them, they all seem to have broadly similar findings.

[Marco]

Sure, my point is simply that it's valid info to *take into account*, not undisputable fact. For me, if the vaccines were anything near as good at preventing virus transmission, as they are at protecting individuals vaccinated, then we wouldn't be seeing so many new infections.

Marco.