Johns Hopkins Medical Centre - World Coronavirus infection Map by Country.

[Marco]

No, I do get all that?
There’s a need to be careful not to conflate the actual Data with the agenda led spin put upon it.
From both sides.

Im arguing for the Data, the facts...not the spin put on it.

But how do you know if a spin's been put on it, if you can't see it? Especially when the "spin" simply fits with what you WANT to believe! Whether a "spin" exists or not is subjective, based on your mindset. That's my point.

Data is obtained by collating information, but the process is still potentially open to corruption, as it depends on who's collating the data and for what purpose, and if they have an agenda. Perhaps Trump doesn't trust the CDC (as he rightly doesn't trust many things at the moment, including Fauci), and so that explains his actions?

Facts are only FACTS when they're indisputable, such as 1+1=2. Anything less than that, in terms if of being indisputable, isn't fact. It's simply information for considering.

Marco.

[Marco]

trouble with govt experts and scientists, is that they work for the govt, which may not want truth told... ha, rarely want it told... so, yes you have to be careful

Exactly!

What did you think about my link to the propsed vaccines?

Marco.

[struth]

Exactly!

What did you think about my link to the propsed vaccines?

Marco.

not seen it.. my neck has gone again thanks to all my doing stuff just resting it

[Marco]

Here you go: https://theartofsound.net/forum/show...43#post1205743

Please read it, including details of the link therein, and I'd be obliged of your thoughts afterwards

Marco.

[Gazjam]

But how do you know if a spin's been put on it, if you can't see it? Especially when the "spin" simply fits with what you WANT to believe! Whether a "spin" exists or not is subjective, based on your mindset. That's my point.

Data is obtained by collating information, but the process is still potentially open to corruption, as it depends on who's collating the data and for what purpose, and if they have an agenda. Perhaps Trump doesn't trust the CDC (as he rightly doesn't trust many things at the moment, including Fauci), and so that explains his actions?

Facts are only FACTS when they're indisputable, such as 1+1=2. Anything less than that, in terms if of being indisputable, isn't fact. It's simply information for considering.

Marco.

My Response, not sure what else there is to say really.

Here are some facts about how stupid we all actually are...

The average adult with no chess training will beat the average five year old with no chess training 100 games out of 100 under normal conditions.
The average 1600 Elo rated chess player – a player with several years of experience – will beat that average adult 100 games out of 100.
A top “super” grandmaster will beat the Elo 600 rated player 100 games out of 100.

Analogous to ..a grandmaster is 10,000 times better than average

This distribution is pretty similar across other domains which require purely mental rather than physical skill, but it's easy to measure in chess because there's a very accurate rating system and a record of millions of games to draw on.

Here's what that means.
The top performers in an intellectual domain outperform even an experienced amateur by a similar margin to that with which an average adult would outperform an average five year old.

The average person on the street with no training or experience wouldn't even register as a challenge to a super GM, there'd be no quantifiable difference between them and an untrained five year old in how easy they are to beat.
Their chances are literally zero.

This means that people's attempts to apply “common sense” - i.e., untrained thinking – to criticise scientific or historical research or statistical analysis or a mathematical model or an economic policy is like a five year old turning up at their parent's job and insisting they know how to do it better.

They would not only be wrong, they would be unlikely to even understand the explanation of why they were wrong. And then they would cry, still failing to understand, still believing that they're right and that the whole adult world must be against them. You know, like “researchers” on Facebook.
That's where relying on "common sense" gets you. To an actual expert you look like an infant having a tantrum because the world is too complicated for you to understand.
And that, my friends, is science.

Tom Denton -

[Marco]

yeah but ot needs a carrier fluid etc, so to stop the fluid and....

Sorry mate, that's still not making any sense to me

Marco.

[Marco]

My Response, not sure what else there is to say really.

Here are some facts about how stupid we all actually are...

The average adult with no chess training will beat the average five year old with no chess training 100 games out of 100 under normal conditions.
The average 1600 Elo rated chess player – a player with several years of experience – will beat that average adult 100 games out of 100.
A top “super” grandmaster will beat the Elo 600 rated player 100 games out of 100.

Analogous to ..a grandmaster is 10,000 times better than average

This distribution is pretty similar across other domains which require purely mental rather than physical skill, but it's easy to measure in chess because there's a very accurate rating system and a record of millions of games to draw on.

Here's what that means.
The top performers in an intellectual domain outperform even an experienced amateur by a similar margin to that with which an average adult would outperform an average five year old.

The average person on the street with no training or experience wouldn't even register as a challenge to a super GM, there'd be no quantifiable difference between them and an untrained five year old in how easy they are to beat.
Their chances are literally zero.

This means that people's attempts to apply “common sense” - i.e., untrained thinking – to criticise scientific or historical research or statistical analysis or a mathematical model or an economic policy is like a five year old turning up at their parent's job and insisting they know how to do it better.

They would not only be wrong, they would be unlikely to even understand the explanation of why they were wrong. And then they would cry, still failing to understand, still believing that they're right and that the whole adult world must be against them. You know, like “researchers” on Facebook.
That's where relying on "common sense" gets you. To an actual expert you look like an infant having a tantrum because the world is too complicated for you to understand.
And that, my friends, is science.

Tom Denton -

Not sure exactly what you're saying.... Perhaps you could condense it into a couple of straightforward sentences?

All I'd briefly say, is that what you've quoted is simply an opinion, not fact, and that this Tom Denton fella, whoever he is, is not the definitive word on anything. It's black and white lazy thinking at best [typical of many wannabe scientists].

The trouble is that too many people simply choose to rely SOLELY on the views experts, without exercising their own judgement, and that's a sure way of ending up being controlled by those with an agenda, and who use their 'professional credibility' as a vehicle to dupe others into a rigid way of thinking, and conforming to their mindset, for all sorts of reasons.

Long live the free-thinkers!

Marco.

[struth]

knickers i'd cuff a scientist..

If he/she was wrong tho, and this is an issue, if they are told to say political things that are wrong, but sound right then people need to stand up and say so.
We have seen Trump sacking loads of folk cause they wouldnt tell what his truth is... To an extent Boris is similar.. coz a person wouldnt verbally back Boris's buddy, they got removed etc.. when the cheif science officer was asked, Boris refused to let him speak, so we do need to regard what we are told with scepticism; not disbelieve it, but question it

[Marco]

If he/she was wrong tho, and this is an issue, if they are told to say political things that are wrong, but sound right then people need to stand up and say so.

Exactly....rather than simply swallowing it as gospel, like a mindless sheep. An inquisitive and enquiring mind [challenging the views of experts if necessary, using one's own judgement] is a sign of intelligence, not the opposite!

Marco.

[Marco]

Could I have your views now on my post about vaccines?

Marco.