Johns Hopkins Medical Centre - World Coronavirus infection Map by Country.

[Marco]

No, I'm TELLING you to give it a rest. I'm the owner of this site, so you do what *I* say sunshine, and like it, not the other way round. You've been on my case for too long, which I've tolerated up until now, but enough is enough, so behave.

Marco,.

[Mikeandvan]

I think with the virus as harmful as it is now, that mandatory vaccinations are a step too far, but it should be encouraged. If this were a much more deadly virus, then I think making it mandatory would be a much more urgent matter. It is not only down to personal choice, you cannot choose whether to infect someone or not, if you have the virus, so refusing it could justifiably be seen as selfish. My beef with the govt. at the minute in regards to Covid is the massive over reach of lockdown, and especially the difference in the way that police dealt with recent anti lockdown protestors and the BLM lot during lockdown v.1. More than that its the utter absurdity and pettiness of some of these rules, like you cannot go to a pub just for a drink, you must have a meal, what f***nut came up with that? And I understand now you cannot even buy alcohol in Wales, or something like that. This has more to do with governments being seen to be doing the right thing, rather than any coherent proportionate thinking.

[Marco]

If this were a much more deadly virus, then I think making it mandatory would be a much more urgent matter. It is not only down to personal choice, you cannot choose whether to infect someone or not, if you have the virus, so refusing it could justifiably be seen as selfish.

Sorry, I completely disagree. We're not talking about a small thing here; we're talking about injecting something into your body that *potentially* could have life-changing consequences, if it goes wrong now or in future.

I'd be willing to do many different things to help protect others that are reasonable, and indeed already do, such as wearing a mask in public places and observing social distancing, even though I disagree with it and also think it's largely ineffective, but at least it can't change me in any way.

Quite simply it's not 'selfish' to refuse to take something that you consider as being fundamentally dangerous. Therefore, to try and force people to do so, or bully them into it with a guilt trip about being 'socially irresponsible', is far worse and simply unacceptable. What sort of society does that type of thinking lead to??

If you're 100% happy that having a vaccine for Covid will be safe, and have no qualms about it, then that's fine, but equally, you must also RESPECT the HUMAN RIGHTS of others to refuse if they don't. That's how a reasonable and civilised person behaves (and also a reasonable and civilised society), not someone who thinks that everyone else should be made to do what they think is right, or who takes umbrage at others seemingly 'getting away' with something they can't.

You should never be resentful towards others who have no need to put themselves in the same predicament as you, simply because they're fortunate to be healthier. That's the thinking of a scumbag, and TRUE selfishness at work!

Life is full of risks, always has been and always will be, and eventually we'll all die from something, so you simply have to accept that fact and get on with it, without inhumanely attempting to impose draconian laws and controls upon people, especially as you say, when it's simply not necessary, in terms of how deadly this virus is in *real terms* for the VAST majority of the world's population.

And moreover, the most important thing here is the precedent it sets if things such as vaccines became mandatory... If that were given the green light, what else could the powers that be make mandatory next? As let's face it, if they succeeded in forcing you to inject yourself with stuff, anything else, with questionable nefarious intent, would be a piece of piss!!

THINK about that one VERY carefully, folks, if you value your future freedom!! Do you want to be owned or end up as a glorified slave?

Marco.

[system7]

I was listening to Radio 4 Saturday about the Lady in charge of the current Oxford vaccine. Professor Sarah Gilbert at 1900:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/schedules/p00fzl7j/2020/11/28

But apparently they just modified an old vaccine to get the Coronavirus one. So it's not terribly radical. And she started work in February. Which is reassuring.

[Folsom]

I think with the virus as harmful as it is now, that mandatory vaccinations are a step too far, but it should be encouraged. If this were a much more deadly virus, then I think making it mandatory would be a much more urgent matter. It is not only down to personal choice, you cannot choose whether to infect someone or not, if you have the virus, so refusing it could justifiably be seen as selfish. My beef with the govt. at the minute in regards to Covid is the massive over reach of lockdown, and especially the difference in the way that police dealt with recent anti lockdown protestors and the BLM lot during lockdown v.1. More than that its the utter absurdity and pettiness of some of these rules, like you cannot go to a pub just for a drink, you must have a meal, what f***nut came up with that? And I understand now you cannot even buy alcohol in Wales, or something like that. This has more to do with governments being seen to be doing the right thing, rather than any coherent proportionate thinking.

Way over reach.

If it were actually very deadly then people would be too afraid not to take it for the most part. Anyone vulnerable will want it so it really doesn't matter if others don't, but regardless my body my choice. In the same way it's our choice to follow any law. Whether or not there are consequences well, that's where things get more interesting. What's crazy is people demanding pro choice are anti choice on this subject?. ...

This virus's danger is extremely over stated. In my state we're at supposedly 2.8k. But that's out of 60k average annual deaths... And a lot of them are not covid. I work in healthcare and we know people being told shut your mouth keep your job when it comes to death diagnosing... Hospitals get relief money but not for unrelated thing to covid.

[Marco]

Indeed, Jeremy. I've also heard similar, as stated earlier in the thread, from friends of mine who have relatives that work in the NHS, yet this fact is conveniently glossed over and no-one wants to address or question it, but instead seemingly just swallow the published death stats as Gospel!

I just don't get that mentality. There's credible evidence suggesting that deaths from Covid are deliberately being exaggerated, but no-one wants to know. Sadly, it simply smacks of sticking your fingers in your ears, going 'la, la, la' and hoping that the bad man saying these things will just shut up and go away....

What good is that attitude to anyone?

You should never hide from the truth, no matter how scary it may be!

Marco.

[Gazjam]

Scott Atlas has resigned.

In other News...

To all the “tough guys" who don't want to wear a mask or worry about COVID.
Exhausted nurses & doctors...Paramedics & ambulance drivers.

THEY'RE the tough ones.
Stop making their job harder.

[Duckworp]

Wow, very surprised to find this here. I just popped into one of my favourite Hi-Fi forums only to find a 500+ thread on COVID conspiracy theories, anti-lockdown and anti-vaccination rhetoric.

My daughter is a Dr in a large Hospital. Believe me, it is not good out there. They are at capacity for COVID and if there are many more cases then they will have to start taking over other wards which means kicking people out and cancelling more operations and having more triage for non-COVID and COVID cases. Lockdown and restrictions on socialising simply slows this down so hers and other hospitals can cope. It therefore allows the non-COVID cases to also be treated. It's simple really, no governments are trying to control us, no one is deliberately screwing the economy for personal gain, it’s just a means of allowing hospitals to function for all cases, COVID and non-COVID.

They have a Nightingale Hospital in her town but they have no staff to run it. As things are, the main hospital is under-staffed because of COVID. It seems building these was a political decision with no thought on the practical question of who would work in them. Daft maybe, but they were desperate back in march, desperate to look as if they were actually doing something.

But given that, everything going on with restrictions does actually make sense, however inconvenient and illogical it may seem from the outside. If these measures were not taken obviously they'd be more COVID deaths but also a lot of ill non-COVID people would be dying and more operations cancelled as hospitals would be overwhelmed by COVID.

There is nothing sinister going on. And 5G does not spread COVID.


I am not an anti-vaxer, rather I am pro-vaccinations, but I am a little nervous of new vaccines as I have, in my past, had a bad reaction to a couple of vaccines including the basic flu virus. I understand that they may introduce a system which will mean you are not able to travel abroad without proof of a vaccine. That will be an interesting dilemma to face.

[Filterlab]

Wow, very surprised to find this here. I just popped into one of my favourite Hi-Fi forums only to find a 500+ thread on COVID conspiracy theories, anti-lockdown and anti-vaccination rhetoric.
.

May I ask why you’re “very surprised”? Do you believe that as Hi-Fi enthusiasts we collectively shouldn’t have any opinions or thoughts on the current situation? Or are you very surprised that some opinions differ from yours?

[Folsom]

Wow, very surprised to find this here. I just popped into one of my favourite Hi-Fi forums only to find a 500+ thread on COVID conspiracy theories, anti-lockdown and anti-vaccination rhetoric.

My daughter is a Dr in a large Hospital. Believe me, it is not good out there. They are at capacity for COVID and if there are many more cases then they will have to start taking over other wards which means kicking people out and cancelling more operations and having more triage for non-COVID and COVID cases. Lockdown and restrictions on socialising simply slows this down so hers and other hospitals can cope. It therefore allows the non-COVID cases to also be treated. It's simple really, no governments are trying to control us, no one is deliberately screwing the economy for personal gain, it’s just a means of allowing hospitals to function for all cases, COVID and non-COVID.

They have a Nightingale Hospital in her town but they have no staff to run it. As things are, the main hospital is under-staffed because of COVID. It seems building these was a political decision with no thought on the practical question of who would work in them. Daft maybe, but they were desperate back in march, desperate to look as if they were actually doing something.

But given that, everything going on with restrictions does actually make sense, however inconvenient and illogical it may seem from the outside. If these measures were not taken obviously they'd be more COVID deaths but also a lot of ill non-COVID people would be dying and more operations cancelled as hospitals would be overwhelmed by COVID.

There is nothing sinister going on. And 5G does not spread COVID.


I am not an anti-vaxer, rather I am pro-vaccinations, but I am a little nervous of new vaccines as I have, in my past, had a bad reaction to a couple of vaccines including the basic flu virus. I understand that they may introduce a system which will mean you are not able to travel abroad without proof of a vaccine. That will be an interesting dilemma to face.

You're hearing what she's saying but not computing all of it.

First, everyone goes to the hospital in fear for the life for covid because they're scared to death of it.... because they watch MSM. And a lot of those people are what would be yearly admission for flu etc but aren't being classified as such. Either way you've got increases from panic. Then they're low staffed because they aren't operating normally. It's not the covid cases themselves that are the craziness. But as always anyone who works in a hospital is very dramatic 100% of the time.... believe me, I work with all of them all day. It's not fun, but it's not world ending.

As far as "slows it down" , well does it? We have seen little evidence of that. In fact so far basically none. It appears like the virus hits somewhere initially where they know it's around and then you get the late responders (immune systems) coming in because they're in need of medical assistance. Then you lock down after the fact... When maybe already the majority have already had it.