+ Reply to Thread
Page 437 of 533 FirstFirst ... 337387427435436437438439447487 ... LastLast
Results 4,361 to 4,370 of 5324

Thread: Johns Hopkins Medical Centre - World Coronavirus infection Map by Country.

  1. #4361
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: Suffolk

    Posts: 762
    I'm guy.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    The division of wealth thing always interested me. What would happen if we pooled all the wealth in the world and divided it out equally?

    If you don't count derivatives but do count everything else then there's approx 175.5 trillion dollars of wealth in the world. Assume 7 billion people so if we whacked it out we'd each get 25,000 dollars. Bear in mind that this includes the value of property so a lot of us would be considerably poorer. However the poorest 2 billion people would be 25000 times wealthier than they are now.

    Trouble is this does not take into account debt. Global debt (individuals and countries) is approximately 200 trillion dollars. So if we clear all the debt before dividing up the wealth we're left with minus 25 trillion dollars. In other words we'd each be left with a net debt of $3.5K.

    Those already in more debt than that would no doubt find this welcome. For the rest of us not so much, including the poorest 2 billion who would actually be much worse off than they are now. But it would be fair and equal.
    I'm not good with finances (my wife regularly reminds me of this ), but surely the total debt of 200 trillion dollars is owed to someone/s, so wouldn't that all go in to the pot and be part of the distributed "wealth"
    LP12, Ittok, DV10X5, NVA Phono 2 (twin supply), NVAP50/A4O'S, LS5, Rega Ela mk1's.
    Sony CDP XB930.

  2. #4362
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 29,579
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by guy View Post
    I'm not good with finances (my wife regularly reminds me of this ), but surely the total debt of 200 trillion dollars is owed to someone/s, so wouldn't that all go in to the pot and be part of the distributed "wealth"
    Well have to admit my post was a bit tongue in cheek. Just wanted to point out that the whole thing with money and debt is complex and it isn't as simple as just doing a Robin Hood and robbing from the rich to give to the poor.

    As far as the debt goes that's 'money' that is created out of thin air. If you borrow 100K off the bank to buy a house they don't actually give you 100K of their own money out of the vaults. So no, you can't count the debt as wealth.
    Current Lash Up:

    *Audiolab 6000CDT* SoncozSGD1 * Krell KSA100 mkII * JM Lab Electra 926 *


    'You fool! To think that your ape-brain could contain the full knowledge of the Krell!'

  3. #4363
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 29,579
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    Also it isn't a zero-sum game. If Geoff Bezos gets richer that doesn't mean someone else has to get poorer. So the idea that people hoarding vast sums of money means there is less for the rest of us doesn't hold water. Nevertheless, blaming rich people for poverty does play well in the sticks.

    Marco's point about individuals being wealthy enough to influence the political process does have some merit to it. But really it's mostly the big corporations that have that power, not individuals.

    Added to which wealthy individuals can't actually access most of that wealth. Most is in shares which they can't just cash in for various reasons. Bezos may be 'worth' $170 billion but he doesn't have that in cash at bank.

    Once you compare that to government spending, it's a drop in the ocean. UK government spent 772 billion in 2016-2017 - US Federal government spent over $4 trillion last year.

    Even if you confiscate all the super wealthy people's 'money' it would be gone in a matter of months and wouldn't change things very much if at all.
    Current Lash Up:

    *Audiolab 6000CDT* SoncozSGD1 * Krell KSA100 mkII * JM Lab Electra 926 *


    'You fool! To think that your ape-brain could contain the full knowledge of the Krell!'

  4. #4364
    Join Date: Jun 2014

    Location: Chorley Lancs

    Posts: 7,429
    I'm Steve.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Well have to admit my post was a bit tongue in cheek. Just wanted to point out that the whole thing with money and debt is complex and it isn't as simple as just doing a Robin Hood and robbing from the rich to give to the poor.

    As far as the debt goes that's 'money' that is created out of thin air. If you borrow 100K off the bank to buy a house they don't actually give you 100K of their own money out of the vaults. So no, you can't count the debt as wealth.
    But surely the bank needs to have that money kept somewhere in some form? This is what I can't get my head around - this global debt must be owed to someone on this planet who had that money to lend.
    I just dropped in, to see what condition my condition was in

    T/T: Inspire Monarch, X200 tonearm, Ortofon 2M Black. Phono: Yaqin MS-22B CD: Marantz CD6006 (UK Edition); Headphone/pre: Myryad Z40; Amp: Audion Silver Night 300b stereo
    Speakers: Zu Omen Def. Cables: Atlas Equator interconnects, Atlas Hyper 3.0 speaker cables

    T'other system:
    Echo Dot, BOW Wazoo XL, Celestion 5's, BK XLS-200 DF

    A/V:
    LG 55" OLED, Panasonic Blu Ray, Sony a/v amp, MA Radius speakers, REL Storm sub

  5. #4365
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 29,579
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pigmy Pony View Post
    But surely the bank needs to have that money kept somewhere in some form? This is what I can't get my head around - this global debt must be owed to someone on this planet who had that money to lend.
    A 'high street bank' has to have - in theory - ten percent of the money it lends in actual concrete assets. The rest it produces out of thin air. That 100k mortgage has 10K in the vaults and the other 90K is 'created' when you borrow it.

    Merchant banks - gambling on the international unregulated global casino aka 'the stock markets' - have no such restriction. They used to but then it was decided that was a bad idea. Result was the financial crash in 2008.

    Google 'fiat currency' and 'fractional reserve banking.'
    Current Lash Up:

    *Audiolab 6000CDT* SoncozSGD1 * Krell KSA100 mkII * JM Lab Electra 926 *


    'You fool! To think that your ape-brain could contain the full knowledge of the Krell!'

  6. #4366
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: Southall, West London

    Posts: 44,967
    I'm Geoff.

    Default

    Wealth and worth should include assets. Of course there are regional factors to consider, to a fisherman in the east Pacific the cost of a car here is a lifetime's money.
    The word is 'valves' in this country, not tubes. Tubes are what Smarties come in!

  7. #4367
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 29,579
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    Wealth and worth should include assets. Of course there are regional factors to consider, to a fisherman in the east Pacific the cost of a car here is a lifetime's money.
    Which is why he wouldn't be too happy with a fair and equal share-out. He wouldn't even be able to service a $3.5K debt let alone ever pay it off.
    Current Lash Up:

    *Audiolab 6000CDT* SoncozSGD1 * Krell KSA100 mkII * JM Lab Electra 926 *


    'You fool! To think that your ape-brain could contain the full knowledge of the Krell!'

  8. #4368
    Join Date: Jun 2014

    Location: Chorley Lancs

    Posts: 7,429
    I'm Steve.

    Default

    Going on Martin's earlier posted figures, I can't see many people wanting to 'redistribute the wealth', not until they've satisfied themselves that they won't personally be any worse off. Fred Bloggs next door is told that he must give up his 200,000 house and move into a 100,000 flat in order to distribute the wealth fairly. Fred didn't see that coming, and wishes he hadn't voted for it.

    I have five Chunky Kit Kats in the fridge, would I have to hand any of them over? I need them for my butty box next week, and I'd hate to think of them going to some no-mark who isn't even working
    I just dropped in, to see what condition my condition was in

    T/T: Inspire Monarch, X200 tonearm, Ortofon 2M Black. Phono: Yaqin MS-22B CD: Marantz CD6006 (UK Edition); Headphone/pre: Myryad Z40; Amp: Audion Silver Night 300b stereo
    Speakers: Zu Omen Def. Cables: Atlas Equator interconnects, Atlas Hyper 3.0 speaker cables

    T'other system:
    Echo Dot, BOW Wazoo XL, Celestion 5's, BK XLS-200 DF

    A/V:
    LG 55" OLED, Panasonic Blu Ray, Sony a/v amp, MA Radius speakers, REL Storm sub

  9. #4369
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: Suffolk

    Posts: 762
    I'm guy.

    Default

    My wife is right (as always), I found myself switching off and thinking about ham sandwiches (with English mustard) when I got as far as "flat currency" and "fractional reserve banking"
    LP12, Ittok, DV10X5, NVA Phono 2 (twin supply), NVAP50/A4O'S, LS5, Rega Ela mk1's.
    Sony CDP XB930.

  10. #4370
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: Suffolk

    Posts: 762
    I'm guy.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pigmy Pony View Post
    ........
    I have five Chunky Kit Kats in the fridge, would I have to hand any of them over? I need them for my butty box next week, and I'd hate to think of them going to some no-mark who isn't even working
    This is my level/kind of thinking
    LP12, Ittok, DV10X5, NVA Phono 2 (twin supply), NVAP50/A4O'S, LS5, Rega Ela mk1's.
    Sony CDP XB930.

+ Reply to Thread

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •