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Thread: Johns Hopkins Medical Centre - World Coronavirus infection Map by Country.

  1. #5051
    Join Date: Feb 2008

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    How can i do that when there isnt any solid proven evidence [by independant scientific comunities] that i can find, that what ever we are dealing with is anything diffrent than a similar Corona virus to that which causes Flu!
    Show me some real photographic evidence of the actual virus that's proven to be the cause of all this, and i will re-evaluate things.
    Quote Originally Posted by mad-moon View Post
    Stop using the Flu as you are comparing apples to oranges...leave the Flu out of it all together, then make an argument...
    "Today scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
    Nikola Tesla



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  2. #5052
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    All these questions have been answered previously on this thread.

    Flu is not the same as covid - Covid is much more transmissible. Plus you can have covid and not know you have got it. thus carrying on your normal life and infecting others. No true of the flu - if you have the flu you are on your back for two weeks
    Covid is more likely to result in a fatality.
    No vaccine is 100% effective
    Who benefits if big pharma make money? - Everyone with a pension
    Flu comes back every year as there are multiple strains. There is no permanent solution. Whereas with covid a vaccine that is only 50% effective will still eventually result in herd immunity which will eradicate the virus in the same way as the smallpox virus was eradicated.

    The eradication of smallpox is strong proof that vaccines - despite not being 100% effective - are still very effective in eliminating viruses from the population. It demonstrates that current thinking on virology is correct.

    Saying you don't need to have it as you don't get out much isn't really an excuse - you do get out quite a bit - the shops, restaurants, socialising - if you are a carrier then you will pass it on to someone who may well get very sick and/or die from it. If you had the flu you would not be doing any of those things, you would be at home incapable ,

    The socially responsible thing to do is to have the vaccine.
    I totally agree with all this too....I wish the vaccine was out now..It's also my opinion ...respect it please..no matter how safe you think you are...you're not!
    'ANDSOME IN THE SUMMER..'ORIBBLE IN THE WINTER. Barney Milne

    Cambridge Audio CXN, Seagate nas drive, Michell Gyrodec SE, SME309, Denon DL103, Primare R32, Cairn Diablo integrated, Roksan Darius speakers, REL Storm III, Target R1 speaker stands, Atacama Equinox.

  3. #5053
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    The problem, Anthony, is that some people only want to believe in the veracity of 'one true science', or path [i.e. the 'correct' one, based on their biases and belief system], and dismiss all others that seek to contradict it - and as you've pointed out, this isn't a new phenomenon either.

    Burn the heretics, eh?

    And that's *precisely* the problem we have now with coronavirus, as the government (and/or media) only want to follow, or allow for public consumption, their version of such, whilst not only ignoring the rest, but gagging the associated 'dissenting' [equally expert] voices!

    It's brainwashing, pure and simple, and not what we should be facing in a democracy. Plus it completely erodes free-thinking, which I'm vehemently against.

    Marco.
    outside of mathematics nothing is certain. So as a gambling man I study form and place my bets accordingly. What I want to believe is irrelevant to me. If you are a gambler and you bet according to what you want to believe will win, or based solely on what your 'gut instinct' tells you, then you will, over time, lose a lot of money.

    Studying form on this subject indicates that there is no issue with vaccines and that in most cases they do solve the problem.

    if the evidence presented by the anti-vaxxers was more credible then I would swing that way. The problem is that it isn't at all credible and much of it is a tissue of lies, as we have seen with the German court/measles thing.

    If someone has a strong evidential case they don't need to make things up, or wilfully misinterpret the facts to strengthen their case. As soon as you see that you know that their is something bogus going on.

    I've no problem with people expressing anti-vax views, that is free speech. But I object to the idea that all views are simply 'opinion' and carry the same weight. That's just so wrong I don't even know where to start.
    Current Lash Up:

    *Audiolab 6000CDT* SoncozSGD1 * Krell KSA100 mkII * JM Lab Electra 926 *


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  4. #5054
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    Couldnt agree more, which is why none of what is happening at the moment makes much sense!
    Seriously though,unfortunetly people will read into things, and instead of forwarding the article in its entirety, they will add stuff or take away that which does not fit with the point they are trying to make. In the case of the German Scientist, he was not responsible for other peoples interpretation of the outcome of the procedings, and it wasnt the reason for me submiting the info there in the first place, you, and others as predicted picked up on the very part of that article that you thought best fitted your reasoning to totaly discredit what the Dr in question was trying to prove!
    Look back a few pages, and you will find a few replies from me you may have missed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    If someone has a strong evidential case they don't need to make things up, or wilfully misinterpret the facts to strengthen their case. As soon as you see that you know that their is something bogus going on.
    "Today scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
    Nikola Tesla



    www.tubedistinctions.co.uk

  5. #5055
    Join Date: Jan 2013

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    I'm Alan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyTD View Post
    Couldnt agree more, which is why none of what is happening at the moment makes much sense!
    Seriously though,unfortunetly people will read into things, and instead of forwarding the article in its entirety, they will add stuff or take away that which does not fit with the point they are trying to make. In the case of the German Scientist, he was not responsible for other peoples interpretation of the outcome of the procedings, and it wasnt the reason for me submiting the info there in the first place, you, and others as predicted picked up on the very part of that article that you thought best fitted your reasoning to totaly discredit what the Dr in question was trying to prove!
    Look back a few pages, and you will find a few replies from me you may have missed.
    this thread is flooded with this...
    'ANDSOME IN THE SUMMER..'ORIBBLE IN THE WINTER. Barney Milne

    Cambridge Audio CXN, Seagate nas drive, Michell Gyrodec SE, SME309, Denon DL103, Primare R32, Cairn Diablo integrated, Roksan Darius speakers, REL Storm III, Target R1 speaker stands, Atacama Equinox.

  6. #5056
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mad-moon View Post
    Stop using the Flu as you are comparing apples to oranges...leave the Flu out of it all together, then make an argument...
    Not necessarily, if you actually understand and digest the contents of the arguments I've presented. The valid comparison is that BOTH, however you cut it, are capable of killing lots of people. My argument wasn't based upon which one is the most infectious or virulent.

    Plus also, rather importantly, which others and you are either deliberately ignoring or refusing to entertain, is the notion that the published death stats for Covid *may* not be entirely based upon truths, as I outlined earlier. Therefore *if* that's the case, then it's impossible to judge with any real accuracy how deadly this virus is.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from a TCD-420.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW18.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

  7. #5057
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by mad-moon View Post
    this thread is flooded with this...
    In your humble opinion, but if it is, it's not just in the arguments presented that you happen to disagree with!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from a TCD-420.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW18.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

  8. #5058
    Join Date: Jan 2013

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    I'm Alan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    In your humble opinion, but if it is, it's not just in the arguments presented that you happen to disagree with!

    Marco.
    can you elucidate...
    'ANDSOME IN THE SUMMER..'ORIBBLE IN THE WINTER. Barney Milne

    Cambridge Audio CXN, Seagate nas drive, Michell Gyrodec SE, SME309, Denon DL103, Primare R32, Cairn Diablo integrated, Roksan Darius speakers, REL Storm III, Target R1 speaker stands, Atacama Equinox.

  9. #5059
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 103,508
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    outside of mathematics nothing is certain. So as a gambling man I study form and place my bets accordingly. What I want to believe is irrelevant to me. If you are a gambler and you bet according to what you want to believe will win, or based solely on what your 'gut instinct' tells you, then you will, over time, lose a lot of money.

    Studying form on this subject indicates that there is no issue with vaccines and that in most cases they do solve the problem.
    Yes, but regardless of how you've arrived at your conclusions, based on the above, they still simply represent your opinion, not indisputable fact.

    if the evidence presented by the anti-vaxxers was more credible then I would swing that way. The problem is that it isn't at all credible and much of it is a tissue of lies, as we have seen with the German court/measles thing.
    Firstly, I think you're missing the point Anthony was making earlier, and secondly, as far as I'm aware, no-one here, least of all me (or I suspect Anthony) qualify as "anti-vaxxers". We've been here before earlier in the discussion. You can be highly critical or suspicious of something specific to a certain vaccine, without being 'anti' them in general.

    I trust you can appreciate the difference? Therefore, please don't incorrectly label me as an "anti-vaxxer", as I'm fundamentally not.

    If someone has a strong evidential case they don't need to make things up, or wilfully misinterpret the facts to strengthen their case. As soon as you see that you know that their is something bogus going on.
    Indeed, and you could argue precisely that point about the trustworthiness/accuracy of the scientific advice that the government have been following throughout this pandemic. "bogus", in that respect, is highly apt!

    I've no problem with people expressing anti-vax views, that is free speech. But I object to the idea that all views are simply 'opinion' and carry the same weight. That's just so wrong I don't even know where to start.
    Firstly, once again you're going on about "anti-vax views", when none have been expressed, unless you qualify such as someone simply being critical of and calling into question the safety, *specifically* of the forthcoming vaccines for Covid?

    I could say, for example, that I hated the Ford Fiesta, because I think that it's an unsafe pile of shit [I don't, btw], but that doesn't necessarily make me 'anti-Ford', especially if I rate all the other cars in their range - and the same analogy applies to vaccines!

    Lastly, whilst I agree in principle with your views on the respective weight of different opinions, my point is that whatever science you choose to believe is right, in respect of the handling of this 'pandemic', carries no more weight or 'indisputable correctness' than any other, and that applies to the scientific views of the experts who are currently advising the government, and any opinions subsequently formed by others on that basis, as much as any other.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from a TCD-420.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW18.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

  10. #5060
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by mad-moon View Post
    can you elucidate...
    Earlier, you highlighted this part of Anthony's post:

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyTD
    unfortunetly people will read into things, and instead of forwarding the article in its entirety, they will add stuff or take away that which does not fit with the point they are trying to make.
    And then said:

    Quote Originally Posted by mad-moon
    this thread is flooded with this...
    Well, if true, it's not simply just in the content that you disagree with, but also the rest, as arguably those on BOTH sides of the debate have been guilty of 'selectively choosing' quotes in a way that best backs up their argument, but you're only able to see the former because it fits with your bias.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from a TCD-420.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW18.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

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