Johns Hopkins Medical Centre - World Coronavirus infection Map by Country.

[Macca]

Expertise in a given field and “facts” are actually a thing in the real world...
just a thought.
Not every source of information is equally helpful, and can actually be harmful.

Id not ask a Joiner’s opinion on my elective surgery...
for instance.

On the other hand someone can be highly qualified and experienced in their field but still give incorrect information or advice because they have ulterior (financial, political, religious) reasons for doing so.

This is why god gave us logic and common sense.

[Marco]

Jeez, I can't believe you've just said that!

Needless to say though, I wholeheartedly agree. It's also why intelligent people rarely, if ever, take anything on face value, especially when it comes to politics!!

It often pays to look for a hidden angle..... But it's simply more comfortable to believe that there isn't one, especially when what's being said fits with your belief system, and why that's the approach people most commonly adopt.

Plus, too many folk are afraid of challenging the accepted norm [or what the government now seek to create as such], let alone, if necessary, rebelling against it! As I said before, anything for a 'quiet life'

Far easier to be a sheep than a rebel...

Marco.

[Macca]

Jeez, I can't believe you've just said that!

Needless to say though, I wholeheartedly agree. It's also why intelligent people rarely, if ever, take anything on face value, especially when it comes to politics!!

It pays to always look for the hidden angle..... But it's simply more comfortable to believe that there isn't one, especially when the information in question fits with your belief system, which is why that's the more common approach.

Plus, too many people are afraid of challenging the accepted norm, let alone, if necessary, rebelling against it! As I said before, anything for an 'easy life'

Far easier to be a sheep than a rebel...

Marco.

Well that same proviso also applies to those forwarding all sorts of unsubstantiated conspiracy theories - it cuts both ways.

But we agree that the purpose of the mask thing is to increase public confidence, not prevent virus spread. Which is why the requirement is only for 'face covering' not a proper N95 type mask. Of course as others have said any sort of face covering will have some prevention effect, but it is very small.

[Marco]

Completely agree with ALL of that [although, in reference to 'conspiracy theories' we could argue as to what constitutes as "unsubstantiated"], which on these matters, for you and I is rare!

The problem with substantiated conspiracy theories is that, if they existed, they'd no longer be 'conspiracy theories'!

But that doesn't mean that some don't contain an element of truth, or perhaps far more so.

Marco.

[walpurgis]

Well that same proviso also applies to those forwarding all sorts of unsubstantiated conspiracy theories.

I've got a mate who believes every single one apart from the 'flat earth' thing. He's warned me several times about Chem Trails.

[Gazjam]

Arguing the Politics is debatable, sure.

Wouldn’t argue with my Surgeon though before an operation!
Taking it down a notch,
If I had a health checkup and it wasn’t good news,
maybe get a 2nd opinion to be sure...but not a 3rd, 4th it 5th till I got one I preferred.

There IS such a thing as expertise.
Seems simple enough of an concept?

If we were asked by the Government to wear gas masks (as WW2 was going on) would anyone really refuse?
A 1% chance that wearing a mask to buy a pint of milk from the shop would save someone’s life down the line...would matter more to me than my “freedom” being threatened by wearing that mask.

Look to what’s happening in Florida, more people sharing the same airspace without masks, MASSIVE spikes in number of infections.
Facts don’t care about your feelings, and frankly we don’t have them all yet.

[Marco]

Some interesting information here on the development of vaccines for Covid-19, and IMO, not all good: https://www.livescience.com/first-co...e=notification

There's a lot I could say there, but I particularly don't like the sound of this:

Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said in April that a promising COVID-19 vaccine that prompts a strong immune response in Phase 2 trials could potentially be approved for emergency use without a full Phase 3 trial, Live Science previously reported. Phase 3 trials for vaccines typically last several years, according to the CDC, but given the pressing need, a coronavirus vaccine could potentially be granted emergency approval in less time, Fauci said. The trial process can also be sped up through combined trials, where several trial phases are run simultaneously.

Yes, first and foremost a "pressing need" to make money from sales of the vaccines, before this coronavirus virus 'dies' within 12 months [read as ceases to be a problem], as did SARS, and there's no longer any justification for vaccinating people, so we get something that's been rushed through without being properly tested!

Or perhaps more worryingly, this:

While the idea of condensed or combined trials may seem risky, "that doesn't mean they're cutting off the follow-up of these individuals," Bottazzi said. "Importantly, beyond Phase 3 there's a clear strategy and guidance [from the FDA] on post-market surveillance," which involves monitoring people who receive an approved vaccine for infections and side effects that may not appear in clinical trials, she said.

There you go... You can draw your own conclusions as to how once they're able to apply such surveillance, and monitor people accordingly, how that power will likely be (mis)used in future: to continually SPY on and CONTROL them...

Marco.

[Marco]

Arguing the Politics is debatable, sure.

Wouldn’t argue with my Surgeon though before an operation!
Taking it down a notch,
If I had a health checkup and it wasn’t good news,
maybe get a 2nd opinion to be sure...but not a 3rd, 4th it 5th till I got one I preferred.

There IS such a thing as expertise.
Seems simple enough of an concept?[

Yes of course, but you're still not getting the fact that a person's expertise, and the advise they give based on that, can be influenced or manipulated by many factors, as Martin ably pointed out.

At the end of the day, experts are still HUMAN beings, and so prone to making mistakes or being wrongly guided.

Marco.

[struth]

trouble with govt experts and scientists, is that they work for the govt, which may not want truth told... ha, rarely want it told... so, yes you have to be careful

[Gazjam]

No, I do get all that?

There’s just a need (imo) to be careful not to conflate the actual Data with the agenda led spin put upon it.
From both sides.

Im arguing for the Data, the facts...not the spin put on it.
“But the numbers are being put out by X, Y, Z and they are corrupt!!”

Seriously, how deep down the rabbit hole does one go?

Latest from the White House is that the Administration is “ordering” hospitals not to forward their Covid data to the CDC as normal, but to forward it directly to the White House instead.
(maybe Kushner will compile a spreadsheet on his laptop, who the fuck knows)

If you can’t argue with the facts...change them.
Want a conspiracy to latch on to...there you go

And that’s the danger here.

Facts...are facts...are facts.