Johns Hopkins Medical Centre - World Coronavirus infection Map by Country.

[Filterlab]

Good man! We're definitely on the same page.

[Marco]

Hitler proved, if proof were needed, that to control a nation you don't actually need to hide your controlling HQ city under Denver Airport (I believe that is where one of the evil empires currently base themselves according to one theory), but it can be done through completely legal means, with a little bit of force behind it.

Sorry, I'm no historian, so could you please explain what you mean by the above, i.e how it relates to the current situation, particularly the bit in bold? What "evil empire" are you referring to? Thanks!

Marco.

[Marco]

There are too many variables to make any sound judgement on this, the main one being the fact that deaths attributed to Covid, the victims need only have tested postive for Covid for that to be recorded as the cause of death...

Precisely! Rob has just made a similar point. So how can the stated death figures be in any way accurate or trustworthy?

If you're hospitalised with conditions related to Covid, but have an underlying heart condition, and sadly later die of a heart attack in said hospital, is the cause of death Covid, or a heart attack?

Marco.

[Folsom]

No, at her Hospital the paramedics triage the Covid patients and only bring them in if the oxygen levels are sub-92. She says that there are a few walk-in A&E patients with covid but most of these are triaged and sent home as if they were well enough to make it to Hospital they probably aren't ill enough to be kept in.

That sounds good. But I would point out that old people aren't typically put on oxygen until below 88 (as in 88-92 isn't actually always abnormal).

By the way, where is your daughter? It seems like different areas have an initial influx; especially if they are an area of high density population. Nearly all the most severe areas are high density population. The viral load is just much higher before symptoms.

What is MSM?

mainstream media

No she says these are definitely Covid as they are tested and are not sent to the Covid ward if they test negative. She says the Covid ward patients not on Oxygen make a cacophony of breathless breathing.

Covid tests are trash. Believe me, they don't work worth a crap. Flip a coin... It's BAD. As an anecdote (not proof or whatever) I know a guy who made an appointment but never showed, and got sent a positive result...

There is evidence this week: daily covid cases are dropping after the month of lockdown. Then remember that cases declined to next to nothing after the full-on March-May lockdown. There is absolutely no doubt that reducing person-to-person interactions in society reduces covid. The question is whether that reduction is worth the economic cost.

That's a far cry from proof... evidence of an observation. Everyone was still going to grocery stores etc. It's not just economic either. For example my great uncle is in California and needs to see a doctor pretty bad but can't for any reason. We're collecting much bigger health problems than covid by being shut down. The third world that depends on a lot of other countries are suffering as well. It's like we're living a drug commercial. The reality is we may be running more risk of mutations that cause bigger problems.

I actually suspect a lot of the people who get severely sick don't show symptoms for extended periods of time. Covid has been in many places way longer than the media would portray. It was in France as early as November, and the US by December. I know of areas that got hot with cases that had it spread all over and masses of people online where talking about strange symptoms and being told no to seek medical help unless they're basically dieing (they wouldn't let them make appointments). We're talking about February and March.

[Duckworp]

Sorry, I'm no historian, so could you please explain what you mean by the above, i.e how it relates to the current situation, particularly the bit in bold? What "evil empire" are you referring to? Thanks!

Marco.

I’m no expert on conspiracy theories but I have read one that believes such. See link.
https://www.travelandleisure.com/air...iracy-theories

On vaccines- Although vaccines won’t be made compulsory there are rumours that airlines will not allow you to travel, nor public events, such as sports, theatre, cinema etc, allow you to enter, without a certificate of vaccination. If this actually happens it will severely limit what unvaccinated people can do. Who knows if this will be implemented or not but I suspect the air travel bit might be more likely.

[anthonyTD]

Its interesting that you mention the certificate, i was listening to a radio show a few days back, and one person mentioned that if a certificate were needed as proof then within days the internet would be awash with fake versions available for a sum, now that's where the newly developed tattoo under the skin version will play its part.Then what next ???

I’m no expert on conspiracy theories but I have read one that believes such. See link.
https://www.travelandleisure.com/air...iracy-theories

On vaccines- Although vaccines won’t be made compulsory there are rumours that airlines will not allow you to travel, nor public events, such as sports, theatre, cinema etc, allow you to enter, without a certificate of vaccination. If this actually happens it will severely limit what unvaccinated people can do. Who knows if this will be implemented or not but I suspect the air travel bit might be more likely.

[Mikeandvan]

Precisely! Rob has just made a similar point. So how can the stated death figures be in any way accurate or trustworthy?

If you're hospitalised with conditions related to Covid, but have an underlying heart condition, and sadly later die of a heart attack in said hospital, is the cause of death Covid, or a heart attack?

Marco.

I believe if Covid 19 is found in the patient then it is counted as one more towards the Covid death count, but don't quote me on that. A clearer picture might be overall excess deaths, again not conclusive, as some of those deaths may have been due to other conditions being neglected because of covid (i.e. treatment being postponed).

[Marco]

I’m no expert on conspiracy theories but I have read one that believes such. See link.
https://www.travelandleisure.com/air...iracy-theories

On vaccines- Although vaccines won’t be made compulsory there are rumours that airlines will not allow you to travel, nor public events, such as sports, theatre, cinema etc, allow you to enter, without a certificate of vaccination. If this actually happens it will severely limit what unvaccinated people can do. Who knows if this will be implemented or not but I suspect the air travel bit might be more likely.

Yes I've heard that and don't doubt it's likely to become reality, or at least they'll try and make it so.

We rarely fly anywhere, mostly go abroad by car/boat and rarely use any of the other venues you mention (we have a perfectly good home cinema with Sky and Netflix, plus a blu-ray player, and watch all the sport we need on TV), so it would be no big deal. And if it got to the point where we couldn't travel abroad, via any means, then we'd just stay within our own shores - *anything* to avoid taking something that WE DON"T WANT!!

In any case, if what you've said comes to pass, we'll see how well the population accepts having their freedoms limited in that way, especially the millions who won't be taking a vaccine, and of course anyone else [and there are plenty] who believe in protesting and fighting against the fascist controlling of our civil liberties...

https://bigbrotherwatch.org.uk/

The above organisation is but one of many, worldwide. It won't just be large protests in many major UK cities, like there were recently against lockdowns, but MASS RIOTS and the beginnings of civil war. As there are many people, including me, who simply won't just 'sit back and take it', but FIGHT against such oppression and tyranny!

And I'm not kidding when I say this, if it *really* got to the stage where it was necessary, I'd gladly become a 'freedom fighter'/activist - and a prominent one at that, as I'm very good at influencing and leading people. If they want a war, they'll fucking get one!

The fact is, many of the freedoms we currently enjoy were fought and won by others against their oppressors, and if necessary, the people will be triumphant again!!

That said, in terms of what you mentioned, which are essentially 'immunity passports', should they be introduced (I think it's likely), and my own personal situation, it would be a good test of our ability (or anyone else's ability) to be self-sufficient, which is something we've been building towards for years!

For starters, neither of us (my wife or I) needs to work, we have no kids and no debt [mortgage free], everything we own is bought and paid for, plus we grow a lot of our own produce, so that puts US in control of ourselves and our future rather more than most

Marco.

[anthonyTD]

That would seem the case. As for the PCR test, my main beef with that; and going by the explanation of many independent virologists, and those from the scientific, and medical fraternity, is that it doesn’t actually identify the virus, only the debris left in your respiratory system, nasal passage, and throat. Even the person who was credited for the development of this test stated it was not to be used as an accurate method of detecting a particular type of corona virus, as it would be highly inaccurate, when used for this purpose. Now if we were to use a very simple comparison as an example; if the vaccine developed is specific to a particular type of virus, then you would need to know the exact virus your dealing with after having done extensive research to isolate it in its entirety, to prove without doubt that what you have developed is specifically for the job intended, i hope we at least agree on that, now bear with me on this one; lets say you were driving your car on the motorway, and you have a puncture, you may then ring your emergency breakdown service, and explain the situation, they then send out one of their technicians to help, the technician turns up with a wheel and tyre, great, unfortunately he didn’t know that your car was a range rover, and the wheel he’s brought with him is for a Mini I hope you understand where I am coming from with this, now some will say, well, they don’t need to know the exact car you have as long as the wheel stud pattern is the same, but seriously' how likely is that going to be though ?

Now some may also say that well, it’s a blanket vaccine, it will cover a few versions of Corona virus mutations, again, I say; how likely is that really?
Folks, I really, really hope that what ever the first 20 million people in this country get as far as a vaccine works, and we can all get back to some kind of normality, but I have to admit, until I see the Range rover, and its spare wheel united, I remain a sceptic.

I believe if Covid 19 is found in the patient then it is counted as one more towards the Covid death count, but don't quote me on that. A clearer picture might be overall excess deaths, again not conclusive, as some of those deaths may have been due to other conditions being neglected because of covid (i.e. treatment being postponed).

[Marco]

I believe if Covid 19 is found in the patient then it is counted as one more towards the Covid death count, but don't quote me on that. A clearer picture might be overall excess deaths, again not conclusive, as some of those deaths may have been due to other conditions being neglected because of covid (i.e. treatment being postponed).

Indeed, Mike. All you're doing really is highlighting how potentially flaky the stats are - and if they're so unreliable, how can we trust them and truly *know* just how deadly this virus actually is...??

Marco.