Johns Hopkins Medical Centre - World Coronavirus infection Map by Country.

[Mikeandvan]

There is no doubt that there is massive economic devastation. But imagine for a moment the alternative: scenes of hospital beds in corridors, scenes of heart attack and stroke emergency patients being turned away or treated in corridors, reports of people unable to get into hospital and dying at home whether from covid or another emergency. Given that the NHS cannot get the Nightingale Hospitals to operate due to lack of staff this is what it would be like. Even if you personally decide that this situation is human cost worth taking to save the economy, no government would ever want these images beamed around the country and the world. Labour and Tory would never allow it, and even the extremists like Iain Duncan Smith and Nigel Farage if in power would find it hard to be the enablers of this situation.

The fact that we are not at that situation is because the economy is devastated. But if you were in power would you really sanction such a medical disaster?




My daughter's hospital is just about coping because of the actions taken by the government to contain the spread of the disease. Without these lockdown actions they would be overrun as I described above. OK, one cannot 'prove' that they would be in this state but anyone with a basic understanding of graphs and growth curves would be able to see that there would be substantially more cases if society was operating as normal.

There are too many variables to make any sound judgement on this, the main one being the fact that deaths attributed to Covid, the victims need only have tested postive for Covid for that to be recorded as the cause of death, without knowing whether it was actually the cause, on top of that the average age of people dying from Covid is 82, sad, but hardly tragic. The overall excess death rate is helpful, but not conclusive. To me a much more sensible solution would be strong advice to self isolate if you are vulnerable, owing to age or general health. But you are correct about politics being the driving force behind lockdown, the politicians need to be seen to be doing something, no matter how ridiculous rather than having a coherent proportionate plan.

[Barry]

You were doing well, until you wrote this:

.... It's a bit like in HiFi the people who get on their high horse and claim cables absolutely cannot make a difference. They seem to imply that manufacturers, retailers, and hifi journalists and consumers who report a difference are all in this together in some conspiracy. It is nonsense: if this were the case over the decades one of these people in retirement would have come out the woodwork and admitted it was all a hoax.

I don't know of any cable sceptic who thinks that the whole issue of cable 'sound' is a conspiracy. A marketing ploy maybe, but not a conspiracy.

[Mikeandvan]

Sorry, I completely disagree. We're not talking about a small thing here; we're talking about injecting something into your body that *potentially* could have life-changing consequences, if it goes wrong now or in future.

I'd be willing to do many different things to help protect others that are reasonable, and indeed already do, such as wearing a mask in public places and observing social distancing, even though I disagree with it and also think it's largely ineffective, but at least it can't change me in any way.

Quite simply it's not 'selfish' to refuse to take something that you consider as being fundamentally dangerous. Therefore, to try and force people to do so, or bully them into it with a guilt trip about being 'socially irresponsible', is far worse and simply unacceptable. What sort of society does that type of thinking lead to??

If you're 100% happy that having a vaccine for Covid will be safe, and have no qualms about it, then that's fine, but equally, you must also RESPECT the HUMAN RIGHTS of others to refuse if they don't. That's how a reasonable and civilised person behaves (and also a reasonable and civilised society), not someone who thinks that everyone else should be made to do what they think is right, or who takes umbrage at others seemingly 'getting away' with something they can't.

You should never be resentful towards others who have no need to put themselves in the same predicament as you, simply because they're fortunate to be healthier. That's the thinking of a scumbag, and TRUE selfishness at work!

Life is full of risks, always has been and always will be, and eventually we'll all die from something, so you simply have to accept that fact and get on with it, without inhumanely attempting to impose draconian laws and controls upon people, especially as you say, when it's simply not necessary, in terms of how deadly this virus is in *real terms* for the VAST majority of the world's population.

And moreover, the most important thing here is the precedent it sets if things such as vaccines became mandatory... If that were given the green light, what else could the powers that be make mandatory next? As let's face it, if they succeeded in forcing you to inject yourself with stuff, anything else, with questionable nefarious intent, would be a piece of piss!!

THINK about that one VERY carefully, folks, if you value your future freedom!! Do you want to be owned or end up as a glorified slave?

Marco.

I said make it mandatory IF it were a far deadlier virus! Believe me people wouldn't need telling not to leave their homes, they'd be inside on the potty, this pandemic has exposed the extremely delicate nature of a Global world.

[Macca]

In fairness people's own experiences are just snapshots. There's 3 million people working a the NHS over several thousand locations.

I don't know how many in the USA but it will be a lot more on both counts. Even if you go to a 100 locations it's still not enough to be representative.

[walpurgis]

I said make it mandatory IF it were a far deadlier virus!

It was deadly enough to sixty odd thousand in the UK so far.

[Marco]

I said make it mandatory IF it were a far deadlier virus! Believe me people wouldn't need telling not to leave their homes, they'd be inside on the potty, this pandemic has exposed the extremely delicate nature of a Global world.

I totally understand where you're coming from, but as I've already said, unless there is literally NO other option for the future safety of mankind (as you say, the existence of a much deadlier virus for the majority of the world's population, and Covid certainly isn't that), then things such as vaccines should NEVER be made mandatory in a supposedly free country.

It's immoral, totally wrong, and a gross infringement of your human rights. We've become way too much of a nanny state!

Marco.

[Marco]

It was deadly enough to sixty odd thousand in the UK so far.

Yes, if you believe the accuracy of the death figures!

Also, what about the 30,000 people who die from flu every year? Should the flu jab also be made mandatory, in order to reduce related deaths? Where does it end?

Sorry, but we're going round in circles.

Marco.

[Filterlab]

It was deadly enough to sixty odd thousand in the UK so far.

But not to over 65 million of the rest of us. That's a very small percentage in absolute numbers terms, and how many of those deaths have been incorrectly recorded as COVID deaths? I'd imagine it would be easy for lazy-arse workers to just put 'COVID' on the death cert. Who would ever follow it up?

Saying it how I see it.

[guy]

I have begun to think/hope that we will be almost through the Covid 19 by next summer.
BUT, what the hell will our response be when a really effective "killer virus" outbreak happens?

[Marco]

But not to over 65 million of the rest of us. That's a very small percentage in absolute numbers terms, and how many of those deaths have been incorrectly recorded as COVID deaths? I'd imagine it would be easy for lazy-arse workers to just put 'COVID' on the death cert. Who would ever follow it up?

Saying it how I see it.

And me!

Marco.