Johns Hopkins Medical Centre - World Coronavirus infection Map by Country.

[prestonchipfryer]

Possibly, John. However, he normally goes and collects it himself. Even it 87, he's fiercely independent and simply wouldn't think of getting stuff delivered, shopping or whatever. He asked me to collect it, as he was tired after working in the garden all day! And when I delivered it, he was lying on his sun-lounger in the back garden, sipping a glass of wine

Lazy bugger, lol... Seriously though, long me he continue to be like that!

Back of his garden (from various angles, all done and maintained by him):







That pear tree produces lots of fruit, so we've always got plenty of fresh pears!

Below. a little chill-out area, where we often relax with few glasses of Prosecco before lunch...



Marco.

Wow! Looks very good. Yes I understand how important independence is. My mother-in-law, who is 90 still does her own gardening and grows vegetables, etc. in her small garden and is fiercely proud of her achievements. She has been unwell and my good lady wife has been worried for her. Luckily she has been having her prescriptions delivered by one of the local pharmacies, which I knows she really appreciates. Having said that she would much rather hop on the bus, go to town and pick it up herself!

The prescription delivery drivers, as I understand, are so busy with many, many more people opting in to have home deliveries instead of queuing up but of course this is not always practicable.




Of course it is desirable that people keep as active as possible and it's heartening to see such a lovely garden.

[RobbieGong]

That's a lovely space

[Gazjam]

I'll go with the scientific consensus that the virus is real and very dangerous, rather than a theory which implies collusion on the part of thousands of people, including many eminent doctors and scientists, and at the cost of billions of pounds and millions of lost jobs, to enrich one person. Such a theory makes no sense.

Me too.

One thing you can bet the Farm on is peoples incompetence?
To think that a worldwide conspiracy involving many many Scientists, Doctors, Statisticians would work without information getting out is (to me) a crazy conspiracy theory.
Its Occam's Razor: simplest solution is probably the right one.

Though I prefer Christopher Hichen's take on it:

"the burden of proof regarding the truthfulness of a claim lies with the one who makes the claim; if this burden is not met, then the claim is unfounded, and its opponents need not argue further in order to dismiss it."

Chances are its probably NOT a worldwide conspiracy? But hey...it's a free country and we can believe what we want.

Good article here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/art...iracy-theories

That's me done, said my bit.

[AJSki2fly]

Ok let’s try and put some common sense thought into this, weather you believe in its all a conspiracy or everything we are being told by Gov is true you need to put this to one side and consider some basic facts.

Firstly we need to accept that people are dying either directly or indirectly as a result of the said Sars2-COVID19 virus. Next we need to look at some basic facts and do some simple maths IMO.

There is probably one place to go to look at deaths by countries and world that hopefully are reasonably reliable, however you have to take the premise that not all 200+ governments around the world are lying about the numbers of infections and deaths as they are all part of some global conspiracy, or that the WHO is actually in on it and manipulating the figures they report.

There are two places to look https://www.who.int/docs/default-sou...rsn=24f20e05_2 or the next, which I believe is sourced for the aforementioned

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Personally having monitored these figures from the outset I have formed the belief that some countries figure are not necessarily accurate, firstly China, the manner in which they got control and new cases stopped just not hold true if you compare with the rest of the world, so some manipulation going on there.

The UK I believe was definitely not reporting accurately early on, and was failing to identify new cases, and as we all now know is now reporting all probable deaths from covid19, including from those in care. If you look at the figures from the Office for National Stats, and compare it’s the same time last year then it is likely that the total death figure by Covid19 is still low by at least 15k.

But for argument sake I will ignore the above probability as I know some of you even think 36k is an inflated figure, I personally very much doubt this is the case. So let’s accept the current count of 36k deaths to date from Covid19 and total confirmed cases is just over 3 million is reasonably correct.

If you take these figures this means of the total infected 1.2% have died in 10 weeks, doesn’t sound much does it, but lets extrapolate simply this figure assuming repeating Covid19 spikes every 10 weeks as lock downs are relaxed and then restriction put back to get the “R” down. So ignoring any vaccine capability or suitable medical intervention to lessen mortality rate, we would see a death loss of 180 to 200k in a year, and this is with trying manage and control the infection rate.

I will briefly refer back to my simple calculation posted on this thread where I estimated without getting control we would face 250-300k deaths within 3 months, Imperial College modelling figures released recently are actually much worse and indicate 500k plus deaths without controls.

So here is the rub, taking my figures, if there are no effected vaccines or drugs developed and no long term natural immunity, then in 4 years even with strict control in places 1 to 1.2 million will have died in the UK from this disease, this is a ratio of between 1 in 55 and 1 in 67 dead due to Covid19, a stark number imo.

I would countenance great caution not taking SAR2-Covid19 seriously. It most certainly is no way comparable to a natural yearly flu epidemic. There are a number of very important and respected scientists from all around the world who have stated this. Also it is becoming clear that it is very unlikely to be the result of a naturally occurring coronavirus. The key thing to understand is that this virus is related to a group of coronavirus that are closely likened to the cause of the common cold, but it has in some way got a very aggressive form of SARs attached to it. This fact has been personally corroborated by several scientists in the world and by a friend to me directly from the drug/microbiology research and industry.

So my point is be cautious, do not underestimate this disease, and stay safe for your own sake, for those you love and other around you.

When I have time I will take all the figures for the 200+ countries and try and get a global view for you to consider.

By the way if you want to be concerned about how aspects of this may impact you apart from getting Covid19, then look at changes as to how medics evaluate individuals at triage to determine whether patients are taken to or get into a hospital. My understanding is age and other underlying medical conditions are now assessed and taken into account which may preclude an individual getting hospital treatment, when prior to Covid19 treatment in hospital would have been viewed as essential.

[Marco]

Me too.

One thing you can bet the Farm on is peoples incompetence?
To think that a worldwide conspiracy involving many many Scientists, Doctors, Statisticians would work without information getting out is (to me) a crazy conspiracy theory.

Indeed, and as I said to Joe, that's very likely NOT what is happening! However, information *is* getting out. Why else are we discussing it here, not to mention thousands of others doing the very same over the Internet on other similar platforms?

Unfortunately, I'm still too busy to answer properly, other than to flag up certain things I consider as very important, as from experience I'm all too aware of how discussions like this can quickly run away from you in your absence, if you don't keep 'poking' them where they need poked!

Until later

Marco.

[Gazjam]

Indeed, and as I said to Joe, that's very likely NOT what is happening! I'm still too busy to answer properly, other than to flag up certain things I consider as very important, as from experience I'm all too aware of how discussions like this can run away from you in your absence, if you don't keep 'poking' them where they need poked!

Until later

Marco.

No need mate, all good.

[Marco]

Hi Adrian,

I'm not disputing your maths, but as I said earlier, what I am disputing is the official figures quoted (and therefore yours, as they're based on them), on how many people have died *directly as a result of Covid-19*, or ULTIMATELY instead from whatever condition(s) they came into hospital suffering seriously from in the first place, some of which were underlying.

Quite simply, it is NOT a COVID-19 death statistic *if* that is not what someone ultimately has died from, i.e was the actual CAUSE of death.

It's like saying someone who comes into hospital with a serious longterm heart condition, and symptoms of COVID-19, but who subsequently dies of a HEART ATTACK, nothing else, has therefore died from COVID-19, and so goes onto the death statistics for such - and I have good reason to believe that's what has been happening!

THAT is the key point, and why unlike you, I believe that the DEATH figures in the UK and worldwide (but not CASES, which conversely I believe have been GROSSLY UNDERSTATED, simply because of an inability to measure them properly), have been DELIBERATELY EXAGGERATED, in order to further an agenda (create fear in people in order to exert control), as I outlined earlier...

Particularly when I consider that the current test for COVID-19 doesn't test properly for the virus itself, but reveals other things, already naturally present in the biological makeup of some people, and which skews the results! So if the test for the virus isn't reliable, then how can any of the data relating to it be?

I know you'll disagree, and that's fine, but it's simply how I see it, based on the research I've done

Marco.

[Marco]

Well apparently, as reported on BBC radio 4 this morning, a survey of 2500 adults (I think commissioned by Gov.), show over 50% did not believe all we are being told by Gov is true or the full truth, over have of the 50% believe it was conspiracy by the Chinese to destroy the West, and 19% thought it was initiated by the Jews(worrying). What was clear was that people were loosing trust in the government and thought there were other agendas involved. So one would assume action will be taken to turn this around?

Watch out Marco they may be on the look out for you.

Power to the people.

Lol - indeed! They can look for me if they like. Hugely important things like this, where the lives of people and their civil liberties are at stake, need highlighting and defending. It's why (for now at least) we live in a FREE country!

As for the former, absolutely, and long may it continue (which it WILL), as it's a vital weapon in keeping the controlling excesses of our authorities in check!! It's also why some of what I've predicted probably won't happen, and which is the whole point of (and purpose) of free-thinkers, and those who value their HUMAN RIGHTS, fighting against our hugely CORRUPT system

Without such critical intervention, all sorts of nasty stuff would've already happened, and created a rather different world to the one we know even now!

Marco.

[Marco]

Ok, to answer this:

I'll go with the scientific consensus that the virus is real and very dangerous, rather than a theory which implies collusion on the part of thousands of people, including many eminent doctors and scientists, and at the cost of billions of pounds and millions of lost jobs, to enrich one person. Such a theory makes no sense.

I refer to what I said earlier in reply to Jon about something similar:

There's no reason why brain surgeons or nurses aren't susceptible to potential brainwashing, *or inadvertently being manipulated, in order to facilitate an (as of yet undisclosed) agenda*, the same as anyone else. Most of them are happy to comply with (what on the surface) seems like a reasonable instruction from their employers or superiors, and so the propensity for being fooled isn't governed by one's occupation or academic achievements.

I've highlighted the key bits. Consider the last bit in bold, in particular.

It's not about the collusion of thousands of people, and them all being 'in on' a grand, devious plan. Chances are (certainly the good ones anyway) that they'll be completely unaware of what their seemingly innocuous actions *could* ultimately lead to, and *inadvertently* be creating.

As I said, if you receive what seems, on the surface, to be a perfectly reasonable instruction from your employers or superiors, you'll simply carry it out, without necessarily being aware of the potential ramifications of your actions further down the line. That's what I mean by being "inadvertently manipulated", or controlled.

You can only see what's happening/where things could be heading, and how the small things all click into place, if you have an inking of the endgame... Otherwise, why would you?

If you believe what I do (and I know you don't, but I'll explain how I see it anyway), there's essentially a 'chain of control', and in that respect, 'hierarchical pyramid' surreptitiously (the key word) controlling the world we live in, with the global elite at the top of that pyramid/chain, pulling all the strings, subsequently with their intermediaries below, going right down to simply ordinary workers at the bottom, ALL performing tasks that on the surface are seen as entirely innocent, but which *cumulatively* are helping towards creating the 'final jigsaw': the global elite ultimately getting the control and power that they desire.

And they can do that successfully when they've infiltrated enough key areas of 'the system' necessary to ensure the facilitating of their agenda, and which in careful steps [that have gradually and successfully been taken for years], their plan is slowly unfolded... And if this 'vaccine' ever sees the light of day and is rolled out to the population, as intended, then that will a *MAJOR* step in the advancement of their plan, as it will allow them to brainwash and control the world population, via the use of AI technology (my theory on that which I'll explain later), like never before!

That is why we have to stop their plan in its tracks by REFUSING ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINES for this virus. That is absolutely imperative, if we are to thwart it and PROTECT OUR FREEDOM.

Dismiss all of that, as I know you will, but I believe it essentially represents the desire of the 'powers that be', and what will eventually happen (and in time become the 'new normal') if we don't do something about it NOW...!

Marco.

[Joe]

If we were talking about junior doctors, maybe, but senior scientists, including Nobel Prize winners? How could they be conned into believing some false narrative on the lines you suggest?