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Thread: Johns Hopkins Medical Centre - World Coronavirus infection Map by Country.

  1. #3971
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,774
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeandvan View Post
    The government response to Covid has been inconsistent to say the least. They have swung wildly from Boris' famed 'herd immunity' to Hancocks latest 'don't kill your granny', this is a government without direction and conviction. I certainly think schools should go back, and people back to work, yes i have some reservations, I've heard of the odd healthy not so old person dying from this disease, but by and large it seems it really is only the most vulnerable who are at risk.
    Certainly some relatively young and healthy medical personnel have died from it. If you get a big enough dose it will kill pretty much anyone.

    Obviously the government have had to make it up as they go along, it's unprecedented. But as I said the other day I think herd immunity was the policy from the start and still is. Boris doesn't mention it anymore because that time he mentioned it there was a bit of a fuss. There's no value in frightening the horses.

    You won't get any of the western governments or the healthcare professionals to admit it but that is the strategy they are pursuing for the simple reason that there isn't any other valid strategy.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  2. #3972
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Cardiff

    Posts: 2,395
    I'm Steve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Ok mate, but you need to edit out the swearing and stuff from your last post.

    Marco.
    No problem Marco, I have cooled down now from the white hot anger that post inspired. so I have deleted it. I still think it was asinine but whatever...
    Add water... Makes It's own sauce! + Don't Do Rap.. Don't do Urrban.. Don't do Modern R&B and Don't Do Radio 1 cos it's all fecking SHITE

  3. #3973
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    But as I said the other day I think herd immunity was the policy from the start and still is. Boris doesn't mention it anymore because that time he mentioned it there was a bit of a fuss. There's no value in frightening the horses.

    You won't get any of the western governments or the healthcare professionals to admit it but that is the strategy they are pursuing for the simple reason that there isn't any other valid strategy.
    Indeed - it's the ONLY viable strategy, because even if we get a 'safe vaccine', which is claimed to be effective (although we're still waiting for one for the last Coronavirus outbreak there was: SARS), as you pointed out earlier, it's unlikely to be a genuine cure, so if the forthcoming 'miracle vaccine' doesn't solve the problem, then where do we go from there?

    Back to herd immunity of course, and subsequently to letting nature take its course, as THAT is the only true 'cure', and eventually also return ticket to whatever the 'new normal', once this virus has dissipated, is deemed to be!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  4. #3974
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pierre De Grenoble View Post
    No problem Marco, I have cooled down now from the white hot anger that post inspired. so I have deleted it. I still think it was asinine but whatever...
    No problem, mate, we're all human, so thanks for that

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  5. #3975
    Join Date: Feb 2010

    Location: Moved to frozen north, beyond Inverness

    Posts: 2,602
    I'm Dave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Obviously the government have had to make it up as they go along, it's unprecedented. But as I said the other day I think herd immunity was the policy from the start and still is. Boris doesn't mention it anymore because that time he mentioned it there was a bit of a fuss. There's no value in frightening the horses.
    Sorry to disagree, but I don't think the maths works for herd immunity - or at least not yet. In the long term it might, but on the one hand we perhaps don't want too many people to get it, and if we could get the numbers low enough it might go away, but on the other hand for herd immunity we need more people to get it - more even than the current rate of infection would suggest.

    There are other gotchas too if the virus evolves, as seems likely. It might become less dangerous, in which case more people could catch it, and perhaps gain at least temporary immunity - and that would help towards herd immunity. It could however, either remain fairly deadly, or even worse for some members of society, and that wouldn't be good.

    Being able to catch it more than once, which it now seems is possible, is also not good.

    We will be able to predict its behaviour much better with hindsight in a year or two!
    Dave

  6. #3976
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dave2010 View Post
    There are other gotchas too if the virus evolves, as seems likely. It might become less dangerous, in which case more people could catch it, and perhaps gain at least temporary immunity - and that would help towards herd immunity.
    Yup, and I've already said as much; indeed I suspect it's almost certainly already mutated into something different than when it first hit our shores, and I suspect (hope) it's now less virulent, which is one of the reasons why I'm predicting that all these new cases won't develop into the serious ones we saw over March and April, resulting in many deaths.

    What we also have to keep at the forefront of our minds, with the reported rising number of CASES, is that the more aggressively we TEST the populace, the MORE CASES that will be revealed!!

    It doesn't necessarily mean that more people are being infected, simply that we're getting a more accurate picture now of the spread of the virus, than before when LESS testing was taking place...

    So.... Let's keep that FACT firmly at the forefront of our minds, the next time we see or hear on the news about all these new cases, and so stay calm and resist the urge to worry or panic

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  7. #3977
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: Notts

    Posts: 2,741
    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Yup, and I've already said as much; indeed I suspect it's almost certainly already mutated into something different than when it first hit our shores, and I suspect (hope) it's now less virulent, which is one of the reasons why I'm predicting that all these new cases won't develop into the serious ones we saw over March and April, resulting in many deaths.

    What we also have to keep at the forefront of our minds, with the reported rising number of CASES, is that the more aggressively we TEST the populace, the MORE CASES that will be revealed!!

    It doesn't necessarily mean that more people are being infected, simply that we're getting a more accurate picture now of the spread of the virus, than before when LESS testing was taking place...

    So.... Let's keep that FACT firmly at the forefront of our minds, the next time we see or hear on the news about all these new cases, and so stay calm and resist the urge to worry or panic

    Marco.
    There is no evidence that the virus has mutated. What has happened is that doctors have found better ways to treat infected patients. Regarding testing, yes, more testing will reveal more cases. Whilst it is important to have accurate metrics on the scale, distribution and rate of infection, a more important function of accurate and timely testing is to be able to isolate newly infected individuals, to track who they have been in contact with and to ensure that those parties isolate too. The fact is that actual rates of infection are increasing and this is not an artefact of testing.

  8. #3978
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherwood View Post
    There is no evidence that the virus has mutated. What has happened is that doctors have found better ways to treat infected patients.
    Didn't say that there was evidence, Geoff. It's simply my gut feeling that it has mutated into something less virulent, which I hope is right! Viruses often do mutate, hence why the flu jab you get is never the same, as it takes into account different strains of flu.

    With regard to your latter point, on that we are in full agreement, and which is another important reason why I suspect that most of the new cases we're seeing won't develop into something as serious as they did before, hence there will be no significant 'second wave' - something else that the media keep reminding us about, in order to maintain the fear factor.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  9. #3979
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Brighton, UK.

    Posts: 3,061
    I'm Mike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherwood View Post
    There is no evidence that the virus has mutated. What has happened is that doctors have found better ways to treat infected patients. Regarding testing, yes, more testing will reveal more cases. Whilst it is important to have accurate metrics on the scale, distribution and rate of infection, a more important function of accurate and timely testing is to be able to isolate newly infected individuals, to track who they have been in contact with and to ensure that those parties isolate too. The fact is that actual rates of infection are increasing and this is not an artefact of testing.
    Rates of infection are indeed increasing, but deaths aren't, surely the best way to build herd immunity.
    Current system 1210 GR. CDP - Meridian G08. Amp -Sugden A21I - Sig. Wharfedale Lintons.

  10. #3980
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: Notts

    Posts: 2,741
    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeandvan View Post
    Rates of infection are indeed increasing, but deaths aren't, surely the best way to build herd immunity.
    No. Herd immunity is frequently misunderstood. It is typically referenced when determining the proportion of a susceptible population that needs to be immunised in order to provide effective control of an infectious disease such as measles, TB, and polio. The reasoning is that even if the whole population is not immunised, the pool of susceptible uninfected individuals is sufficiently low to prevent widespread infection. The estimates for herd immunity to be effective vary but at the very minimum, it is around 70% of the population. If herd immunity is to be achieved in the UK this would require over 40m individuals to be infected, with the huge burden of mortality and morbidity that would entail. Furthermore, if COVID 19 is like influenza, and mutates slightly each year, herd immunity will be rapidly lost and the whole population (or a large percentage of the population) will require re-immunisation each year.

    The reason that case mortality rates have fallen faster than the rate of new infections is that better treatments have been developed. However, any gains from reduced case mortality rates may well be offset by rapidly rising infection rates which is what we are currently experiencing. Anybody who understands exponential growth will appreciate the consequences of the reproduction rate rising appreciably above unity.

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