Crossover for Quad 63's

[Opti-cal]

I've just had my Quad 63's returned from servicing as they had an issue with with rattling from low bass notes. Although all panels have been checked and a treble panel replaced the speakers still have issues. One treble panel is still ticking and whining and a bass panel is ticking also. But worst of all the rattling is still there and has clearly not been addressed at all.

Besides being massively f***** off I also can't be bothered running them up and down the country to people who are supposed to be able to fix them for a good 10 years use. Haha, I'd take 10 bloody minutes at the moment.

Anyway, the ticking and hissing is barely audible from my listening position but the rattling, once heard, is impossible to ignore. So it got me thinking about something I've been pondering for a while. Making a crossover for my active subs and the Quads.

I take the signal for the subs from a secondary output from my preamp which goes to a small class D power amp and in turn to the subs. It is effectively a high-level input (which always sound best) but does not interrupt the signal going to the Quads from my main power amp. Hence I only have to high pass the frequencies to the Quads, not split them into one for the Quads and one for the subs, so hopefully this will keep things simpler.

I'm considering trying a pair of these before my main power amp but I'm concerned the signal degradation might be too much or possibly a high pass filter could be employed within the preamp before the output.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FMOD-Cros...sAAOSwEppURV7X

I'd probably be high-passing the Quads at around 70Hz (50 might be too low?) so letting them deal with what they do best (high bass/low mids and highs) and letting my twin REL sub's setup in stereo deal with everything under there.

I can actually integrate them pretty well without an in-line crossover (just using the sub's own ones set at about 38Hz) but I reckon this will really help bring added clarity and oomph to the system.

Any suggestion/solution always welcome!

Cheers

[Caber10]

Hi. I run my ESL 63 withGradient subs. These come with an active crossover and I am driving a pair of Quad 303s one doing the subs the other the 63s. When I was setting this up I ran the 63s with the crossover but no subs and this made a huge difference in clarity pretty amazing given how good they are normally. I don’t know what frequency these cross at but the subs are really low.

As for the problems I can sympathise. I have had to take mine to pieces several times to deal with dodgy panels. I am in Edinburgh and the possibility of shipping the speakers complete was no go. I have used one thing audio to rebuild the panels and they have been very good.

If you have rattles it is quite likely to be something come loose in transit. If you check out YouTube there are a couple of videos showing them being dismantled. It isn’t difficult and you may find what is loose or out of place.

Ticks pops and crackles might just settle down. It can also be a symptom of split dust shields also possibly damaged in transit. Fixing them is also a possible diy job, I have done this a few times. If you do still have dodgy panels it is easier to send individual panels for repair.

Who supposedly fixed your speakers? They should help you get them sorted.

Kevan


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[Opti-cal]

Hi Kevan,

thanks for your response. Indeed I've trodden this path a few times before with 57's. I always transport them myself for the reasons outlined and I pack them very securely with duvets and air cushions where appropriate as I appreciate how delicate they are.

It was actually One Thing with whom they have been serviced.

I could not have been more specific about what the exact problem was and told them the conditions it materialised under. (Notes under 70Hz causing rattle from one speaker in particular). They have just checked them to spec and listened to them for a bit. They gave me a large discount on a new treble panel as they were under warranty and chucked in some new covers for free. They couldn't have been more courteous about it in that regard.

I emailed them this morning informing them that the rattle was still present as that was the main issue they went back for. Their response was as if they were puzzled that I did not mention how superior the sound was as compared to before. Not bloody likely when I can't tear my attention away from the exact issue I sent them in for and highlighted most specifically.

Yes I appreciate them chucking in a few discounts but not actually getting to or acknowledging the main issue when I have made it as easy as possible for them by highlighting it, is not worthy of much praise I'm afraid.

I've been after some Gradient subs for years but have given up looking. Didn't have the cash when some last came up a couple of years ago so have made do in the mean time. To be honest the REL'S are quick enough to keep up but I'd love to experience the synergy of dipole subs too. Must be awesome!

Thanks for the advice on the YouTube channels too. I've always fancied teaching myself how to do it as would save a lot of hassle and money no doubt about it. However circumstances dictate that I don't get much tinkering time of late. My 1 year old son has ensured that I've had to restart/continue/lose my train of thought whilst writing this response about 16 times as it is!

Cheers

[Caber10]

That’s really disappointing about OTA.

I had a quick look on google and there are some pretty cheap active crossovers around well less than £100. For example Behringer CX2310 V2 Pro Super-X Crossover or Citronic CX23 2 / 3 Way Active Crossover. I would be inclined to get one and try it out. Most have variable cross over points so room for playing. If it doesn’t help you would get most your money back if you sold it on eBay!

On the rattle it is almost certainly something simple and mechanical. It is easy to get the top off it is in keyhole retainers so pushes off from one side. Then you can pull the sock down and take a look. The front and rear expanded metal grills are first candidates to look for rattles. You could play the speakers with the socks down and see if you can find the rattle.

Definitely keep kid out of the room while doing this and preferably ship him off to relatives if you are going to strip them any more!

If you do decide to strip the dust covers off remember to leave the speakers unplugged for at least half an hour, from power and amp. HT shocks are not fun! The dust covers are the most fragile bit and need most care to remove. Minor holes can be fixed with Scotch Magic Tape, any decent tears or splits means recovering them. OTA sell the material and tape for this. A big rigid clean flat surface is needed to stretch the material out on then all you need is to put double sided tape on the frame and press onto the Mylar. Nerve racking the first time but easy enough once you have done one!

Good luck, the effort is worth it for the stunning sound from these speakers!

Kevan


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[Opti-cal]

That’s really disappointing about OTA.

It is really, I'm not asking too much by wanting the issue dealt with properly. Like I say they seemed to take offence when they misinterpreted my line

"Checking specs and output etc is all well and good but if no one has actually listened for the issues its all a waste of time/money."

- Key part of phrase "listened for issues" -

I'm sure they presumed I implied that no one had listened to them at all. They then gave me some line about listening to Mahler's Symphony No3 in its entirety and how wonderful it sounded. My response was that they could be listening to Mahler or The Spice Girls, if they're just sitting back "admiring" their own work and have completely overlooked the issue I specified, its a waste of my money and both our time. The exact issue I sent them in for remained, they are the facts.

Their work is undoubtedly very good but communication and customer service is stuck in the dark ages I'm afraid. I had very similar experiences with Quad (IAG) service. That ended up with Quad having to go to great lengths to make me a brand new refurbished pair of matched 57's, if they had done what was agreed and communicated originally it would have been a lot cheaper for them. Unfortunately for them I keep accurate records of all communications so they did not have a leg to stand on. They just do not listen. I'm actually trying to save them time and effort, not trying to second guess them or teach them to suck eggs. I think some of the older generation don't take kindly to constructive advice and wrongly deem it to be insolence when in this case they really would have an easier job on their hands if they communicated a bit more effectively.

As I told them also I'm not "one of those" customers who is expecting more than they are entitled to or someone who is never satisfied, I'm an absolute die-hard Quad fan and nothing else will ever do for me, that does however mean that rattles shouldn't be heard!

DIY might be the only option left I fear . . . I will be petrified taking them apart, but I'm sure it is something simple as you suggest. The membranes and dust covers have been thoroughly checked so I think it is just a tiny bend on the grill or something like that. It is audible even at low volume and excites in volume as the speaker does.

Thanks for the tips, much appreciated.