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Thread: Modern MM Cartridge on old Amplifier

  1. #1
    Join Date: Aug 2016

    Location: Kent UK

    Posts: 194
    I'm Paul.

    Default Modern MM Cartridge on old Amplifier

    Hi all

    Just wondering

    What is the result if a modern MM cartridge is used with the Phono stage of a older vintage amplifier.

    Most if not all modern cartridges are made to work with an impedance between 100 & 200pF but my old Pioneer as an input impedance of over 300pF, what would the result be if I used a modern cartridge with this Amp.

    I am currently using a Denon DL-110 MC and was told MC cartridges are not affected my the input impedance, is that correct.

    Thanks for your input on this.

    Paul
    Current setup Thorens TD-160 Mk1 with Denon DL-110 MC Cartridge, Pioneer A-70 Amp, Pioneer PD-8700 CD Player, Yamaha AX-592 Amp, Yamaha CDX-810 CD Player, Yamaha KX-480 Cassette Deck, Yamaha TX-492RDS Tuner, Monitor Audio Bronze 5 speakers, Van-Damme Cables throughout.

  2. #2
    Join Date: Sep 2017

    Location: Dublin

    Posts: 337
    I'm Pavel.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul-H View Post
    What is the result if a modern MM cartridge is used with the Phono stage of a older vintage amplifier.

    Most if not all modern cartridges are made to work with an impedance between 100 & 200pF but my old Pioneer as an input impedance of over 300pF, what would the result be if I used a modern cartridge with this Amp.
    The cartridge will not sound as intended. The most likely result of exceedingly high capacitive loading is that the high frequency resonance will be shifted lower into the audio band resulting in bright sound. And don't forget to add cable capacitance (usually about 100pF) to the total.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul-H View Post
    I am currently using a Denon DL-110 MC and was told MC cartridges are not affected my the input impedance, is that correct.
    MC cartridges usually don't care about capacitive loading but are fussy about resistive loading. DL-110 is a high output MC cartridge designed for standard 47kOhm resistive loading.

  3. #3
    Join Date: Aug 2016

    Location: Kent UK

    Posts: 194
    I'm Paul.

    Default

    The specs for my Amp show the MM side is 50Kohm so assume its ok, it sound ok.
    Current setup Thorens TD-160 Mk1 with Denon DL-110 MC Cartridge, Pioneer A-70 Amp, Pioneer PD-8700 CD Player, Yamaha AX-592 Amp, Yamaha CDX-810 CD Player, Yamaha KX-480 Cassette Deck, Yamaha TX-492RDS Tuner, Monitor Audio Bronze 5 speakers, Van-Damme Cables throughout.

  4. #4
    Join Date: Jan 2020

    Location: South Yorkshire

    Posts: 2,492
    I'm Andre.

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    Why on earth would you want to spoil the sound of a vintage amp with a modern cart?

  5. #5
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 22,257
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Made in 1968 View Post
    Why on earth would you want to spoil the sound of a vintage amp with a modern cart?
    Presumably because Paul doesn't have a 'vintage' cartridge to use with his vintage amp.
    Barry

  6. #6
    Join Date: Apr 2011

    Location: London

    Posts: 3,985
    I'm Robert.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Made in 1968 View Post
    Why on earth would you want to spoil the sound of a vintage amp with a modern cart?
    Rubbish
    My System:
    Amplification - Sansui AU-alpha 707 DR
    Turntable - Technics SP10 MK2-Technics EPA-250 Tonearm-Yannis Tome 423.5Plus tonearm cable-Eichmann KLEI Pure Harmony plugs. Ortofon Cadenza Black moving coil cartridge-Fritz Gyger S re-tip. Panzerholz plinth.
    CDP - Pioneer PD-91
    Speakers - Spendor D7 on Soundcare SuperSpikes
    QED Silver Spiral speaker cable-airloc banana plugs
    Mains - Ultra Pure silver plated un-switched socket-Missing link EPS 500 silver plated plugs-Hi-Fi Tuning gold plated silver ceramic 13 amp fuses

  7. #7
    Join Date: Jun 2014

    Location: Chorley Lancs

    Posts: 5,866
    I'm Steve.

    Default

    I would have thought it'd simply be a case of trying a cartridge, and if you like the sound, great. And if you don't, try something else. But what do I know, I'm hoping someone with better ears than me at Kegworth will be able to tell me whether my 2M black could be set up better
    Pining for the fjords? What kind of talk is that? And why did he fall flat on his back the minute I got him home?

    T/T: Inspire Monarch, X200 tonearm, Ortofon 2M Black. Phono: Yaqin MS-22B CD: Densen Beat B400 Plus; Headphone/pre: Myryad Z40; Amp: Audion Silver Night 300b stereo
    Speakers: Zu Omen Def. Atlas Equator interconnects, Atlas Hyper 3.0 speaker cables

    T'other system:
    Echo Dot, Amptastic Mini-1, Celestion 5's, BK XLS-200 DF

    A/V:
    Panasonic 42" plasma, Panasonic Blu Ray, Sony a/v amp, MA Radius speakers, REL Storm sub

  8. #8
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 22,257
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pigmy Pony View Post
    I would have thought it'd simply be a case of trying a cartridge, and if you like the sound, great. And if you don't, try something else.
    +1 I'm inclined to agree!
    Barry

  9. #9
    Join Date: Aug 2016

    Location: Kent UK

    Posts: 194
    I'm Paul.

    Default

    My pockets are not as deep as yours so just dropping a few hundred just to try is not can option for me. Not that I was going to as I am happy with the one I have, as said at the being, I was just wondering what the effect would be, having been told modern MM carts do not work well with older AMPS.

    Thanks for all the replies though.
    Current setup Thorens TD-160 Mk1 with Denon DL-110 MC Cartridge, Pioneer A-70 Amp, Pioneer PD-8700 CD Player, Yamaha AX-592 Amp, Yamaha CDX-810 CD Player, Yamaha KX-480 Cassette Deck, Yamaha TX-492RDS Tuner, Monitor Audio Bronze 5 speakers, Van-Damme Cables throughout.

  10. #10
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 8,115
    I'm AnDreW.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul-H View Post
    Hi all

    Just wondering

    What is the result if a modern MM cartridge is used with the Phono stage of a older vintage amplifier.

    Most if not all modern cartridges are made to work with an impedance between 100 & 200pF but my old Pioneer as an input impedance of over 300pF, what would the result be if I used a modern cartridge with this Amp.

    I am currently using a Denon DL-110 MC and was told MC cartridges are not affected my the input impedance, is that correct.

    Thanks for your input on this.

    Paul
    Just buy and trust your ears. TBH nobody on the forum is going to know how it sounds in your system, we can only speculate.
    SS

    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DAC Caiman SEG+15V PSU+Dorado DECK 1210 Mat SPH SSS Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe/Ebony PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    VALVE

    PRE
    Croft Epoch(Modified) AMP Sondex S100 (Modified) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Reference XO DECKS Garrard301/401 (Bastin) Mat Teunto Bearings 401/SPH Plinth Moldovan/Bastin Arms 3009/3012(Ikeda Ag wired) SME V 12 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister v2 / Royall N SPU's CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ Speaker 10mm Cu + WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostage Paradise(4 Box Modded) / EAR 834 Clone (modded)

    REAL SOUND


    PRE Radford SC25 (Mullard ECC83/82) POWER RADFORD STA25 Renaissance (Electroharmonix EL34) SPEAKERS Celestion Ditton 15 (Duelund Rewired/Jantzen Recapped) CABLES Speaker - Duelund AWG 12IC - Belden 8402+Switchcraft RCA



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