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Thread: Genesis Box Set 1970 - 75 (longish rant, skip if you're squeamish)

  1. #1
    Join Date: May 2010

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    I'm Alex.

    Default Genesis Box Set 1970 - 75 (longish rant, skip if you're squeamish)

    Got this box set, which contains remixes of the five arguably most important Genesis albums. It has been hailed as the Holly Grail of the prog rock, and some people responded to it as if it was the Second Coming.

    I've learned about this only recently, and got super excited. But upon listening to the remixes, I've made a complete 180 degrees turnaround, and am now deeply depressed.

    The issue, for me personally, boils down to remixing (not necessarily to remastering, brickwalling the dynamics, or any of that jazz). Yes, the new remixes have been tampered with using liberal amounts of compression, limiting, and otherwise EQ-ing the original tapes. But bad as that is, it's nothing compared to how they managed to sus all life out of these marvelous albums by remixing them.

    I've already been disappointed once with a remixing affair, when they remixed some of the Beatles tracks for the refurbished Yellow Submarine DVD. It was clear even then that any attempts to go back to the source tapes and then repeat the mixing process cannot possibly end well. Luckily, Apple Corp. corrected their erroneous ways by releasing the remastered Beatles catalog last year -- remastering is indeed the right way to go.

    With Genesis, I'm not sure why they decided to go with remixing. They should've done the same thing as Apple Corp. did with the Beatles catalog, and just painstakingly remaster the Genesis catalog.

    Instead, they went back to the source tapes (8 channels, I suppose), and worked their way from the ground up, remixing them and then boiling them down to the final masters. The results are, at least to my ears, atrocious. All the magic and the soul and life is now gone from the Genesis music. What's left is just a pile of generic tracks, sounding as if some neo-punk band recorded them last year.

    There obviously is something unique that transpires in the recording studio once the band decides that they're done with laying down the tracks, and when they move into the mixing stage. There are so many volatile factors that come into play at that stage, and these factors cannot be replicated at some other time. But what these volatile, transient factors do is contribute to the flavor and the texture of the mastered tracks.

    When they went back, 35 years later, into the studio and pulled out all those source tapes and started mixing them down, they could not approximate, couldn't come even close to the original vibe that was prevalent during the early '70s sessions. Consequently, the resulting products sound stillborn.

    Maybe I've got it all wrong in my head, but at this point I am highly skeptical that it would be possible to produce respectful remixes of any of the classic material. For example, I'm convinced that no one would be able to successfully remix the Beatles "Tomorrow Never Knows". If this teaches us anything it is that, in the future, we, the consumers, should demand better remasters, not remixes.
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    Alex.

  2. #2
    Join Date: Nov 2008

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    Must say that I disagree strongly with you here.

    I think this box set, be it the CD layer or SACD layer (massively better) is better than the last versions on CD.

    Where I would be disappointed is the lack of special features on these discs compared to the later albums.

    Even worse, the live albums are not SACDs. Oh how I wanted to hear Seconds Out as an SACD

    Regards D S D L
    Regards Neil

  3. #3
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    Having heard (and owned) master copies of a couple of late 70's Genesis tracks, I can vouch for the compression in the original mixes (each side was at least 25 minutes long back then and a pain to cut on vinyl in a single album). The remastered albums from a few years ago seemed to get the best out of the original mixes (the band held better masters than the record company who had copies of these to make the LP's from I once read), but to go back to the multi-track session masters and remix from scratch would be great if done right and with sympathy. A shame if it's been botched
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  4. #4
    Join Date: Apr 2009

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    I'm Ralph.

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    Got the vinyl box when it was released but didn't realise the albums had been remixed, had I known I would not have bothered. Never opened the box, it's here, untouched, unloved, unwanted. By all means remaster stuff but for heavens sake leave the mixes alone.

  5. #5
    Join Date: Dec 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by magiccarpetride View Post
    It has been hailed as the Holly Grail of the prog rock, and some people responded to it as if it was the Second Coming.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSJR View Post
    Having heard (and owned) master copies of a couple of late 70's Genesis tracks, I can vouch for the compression in the original mixes (each side was at least 25 minutes long back then and a pain to cut on vinyl in a single album). The remastered albums from a few years ago seemed to get the best out of the original mixes (the band held better masters than the record company who had copies of these to make the LP's from I once read), but to go back to the multi-track session masters and remix from scratch would be great if done right and with sympathy. A shame if it's been botched
    This also opens up a larger question, to which you've hinted above: is it even possible to remix from scratch with sympathy? Despite the best of intentions at the mixing board, I am growing increasingly skeptical that it could be done right.

    I've been proven wrong on many occasions in the past, so let's hope I'm dead wrong on this one too.
    Don't you just hate it when you cannot detect where the post ends and a signature line begins?

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek Supreme D L View Post
    Must say that I disagree strongly with you here.

    I think this box set, be it the CD layer or SACD layer (massively better) is better than the last versions on CD.
    Interesting. You have, no doubt, noticed that the remixes now sound completely different than the original mixes (different texture, different panning, etc.) Are you saying that you prefer the reassembled Genesis better?
    Don't you just hate it when you cannot detect where the post ends and a signature line begins?

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  8. #8
    Join Date: Nov 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by magiccarpetride View Post
    Interesting. You have, no doubt, noticed that the remixes now sound completely different than the original mixes (different texture, different panning, etc.) Are you saying that you prefer the reassembled Genesis better?
    I feel that the thickness and congestion on many of the tracks has been removed and the instrument textures and interplay are more open and detailed.

    As I have not heard the original masters (and I guess none of us have except Dave DSJR) I don't think any of us are in the position of saying what is definitive or not.

    I prefer what I hear on these SACDs, right or wrong


    Regards D S D L
    Regards Neil

  9. #9
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    I have the 1994 remasters from "Trespass" to "A Trick of the Tail", and they all sound luvverly.

    Can't see the point in going for remixed versions of the same
    Chris



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  10. #10
    Join Date: Dec 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratmangler View Post
    I have the 1994 remasters from "Trespass" to "A Trick of the Tail", and they all sound luvverly.

    Can't see the point in going for remixed versions of the same
    I think they were the last remasters befor this set in which case they are the best sounding IMHO

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