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Thread: Open Baffleless

  1. #1
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Galashiels

    Posts: 13,053
    I'm inthescottishmafia.

    Default Open Baffleless

    I had the opportunity to visit Vic of Trans-Fi fame the other night to have a listen to his OB's,which I'd discovered whilst having a mooch around the net looking for info on my Bastanis. Thanks are due for hosting me and allowing me to listen to his creations - thanks Vic!

    Short version - Wow. Just wow..

    Long version - Vic took me upstairs to his living room, quite a large space, around 30ft. by 15ft. so room for speakers to breathe. We had a chat about the construction of the speakers and the various earlier iterations that are scattered around the room. Some photos below, but basically he uses some miniature scaffolding parts from a company near Huddersfield I think it is - total cost for all the parts and for them to cut the tubing to length was £99 delivered, so a bit of a bargain there. I'll try and find a link. The bass drivers are bolted together facing each other using some spacers of around 4-5", and hang in a cradle of the scaffolding supported by some small loops of cable. This seems to work really well - I checked to see if any vibrations were making there way from the drivers to the scaffolding and couldn't really detect anything, so this arrangement appears to work really well. The PRV mid/top drivers are hung from a U shape bracket, again with a loop of cable under the top drivers' magnet. Vic made some fish plates, more or less the shape of a dog bone to connect the four drivers together, all just hanging there from the top driver. The weight of the drivers keeps them steady. They are connected series/parallel a la Edingdale stylee.

    It was all digital files we listened to, one particular track that struck me was a live version of Man/Machine. I can honestly say I've never heard a speaker in a living room get closer to how a live gig sounds ( or at least how I imagine it would sound not having been there). The scale, dynamics and sheer drive to the bass has to be heard to be believed - I've certainly never heard anything like it in a living room, it really is like being at the gig. The funny thing is though, the bass is in no way overblown, nor does it interfere with the mid/tops in any way, it's just there when it needs to be, and boy is it there! As Vic commented, you can't really appreciate music like this until you hear it with the full frequency range reproduced, and having now heard this for myself, I have to agree.

    The 4" PRV drivers appear to be quite a bargain- I think they are around £75 each?

    Mids and tops were very well reproduced, huge soundstaging too. Very clean and clear, and I didn't miss a tweeter at all.

    Further details - The bass drivers are Dayton Audio UM18, crossed at 275hz to suit the PRV drivers, using the DSP in the Behringer amps. I was surprised to learn there is no DSP used to tweak the low bass response due to the lack of baffle, these drivers are so capable that none is required - I can certainly vouch for that. Only caveat is sensitivity is not great, but as Vic again commented, watts are cheap - he's using a couple of 6000w NX Series Behringers which he paid £300 each- all he does is up the gain by 10db to match levels with the PRV's. Other than that they are run open, as I believe are the PRV's - they are run with a pair of Temple Audio boards, powered with a pair of supercap power supplies.

    Well that's about it, just like to say thanks again to Vic, it was a pleasure to meet you. My plan now is to copy the bass side of this and use it with the Bastanis mid and tweeter.









    EDIT - link to the metal store - https://www.themetalstore.co.uk/
    “Music has always been a matter of energy to me, a question of fuel. Sentimental people call it inspiration, but what they really mean is fuel. I have always needed fuel. I am a serious consumer. On some nights I still believe that a car with the gas needle on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio”

    Hunter S Thompson

  2. #2
    Join Date: Sep 2010

    Location: West Midlands

    Posts: 61
    I'm Rob.

    Default

    Thanks for the write up.

    They look a bit industrial for someone's lounge but look interesting as well. No chance my wife would accept something like that!

    There's been a pair of baffleless speakers on eBay for a while which always catch my eye on my feed. I think they had bigger bass drivers from memory. Is Vic commercialising them?

    I quite fancied a play with the Bastani open baffles but my wife thinks they look like toilet seats
    Rob.

  3. #3
    Join Date: Feb 2015

    Location: Glasgow

    Posts: 106
    I'm Richard.

    Default

    Excuse the pun, but I'm baffled as to how anything remotely resembling a typical house curve frequency response (-10dB slope between 20Hz and 20kHz) can be achieved, without EQ to apply an inverse gain curve to counteract LF roll-off from using the bass drivers open baffle. Unless the face-to-face arrangement prevents the rear-wave from being cancelled? Is that how it works? I'd love to hear that setup!
    Main System: Mac Mini > Schiit Yggdrasil (USB.v5 & Analog.v2) > Yamaha A-S3000 > Tannoy Edinburgh Monitor Gold 12 / Celestion Ditton 66 > BK XXLS400 subs
    Headphone System: Mac Mini > Schiit Yggdrasil (USB.v5 & Analog.v2) > Schiit Mjolnir 2 / Schiit Jotunheim > Sennheiser HD800S / Sennheiser HD600

  4. #4
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Galashiels

    Posts: 13,053
    I'm inthescottishmafia.

    Default

    You have to hear these, it’s hard to describe how good the bass is.

    There is some EQ, Vic has it tailored to give more bass at low volumes. The huge Xmax and power handling go a long way to compensate for the lack of baffle. Theory may say this doesn’t work, but I can categorically say these produce the best domestic bass I’ve ever heard from a speaker.
    “Music has always been a matter of energy to me, a question of fuel. Sentimental people call it inspiration, but what they really mean is fuel. I have always needed fuel. I am a serious consumer. On some nights I still believe that a car with the gas needle on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio”

    Hunter S Thompson

  5. #5
    Join Date: Oct 2015

    Location: KL, Malaysia

    Posts: 219
    I'm shahrin.

    Default

    OMG looks bloody amazing . I am sure those twin 18'' woofers per side will do the business.
    No baffle even. Baffling !
    Thorens td124 mk2 / 3012 S2 / SL15Q / MC15 Super II
    Marantz CD63 / Squeezebox Touch / Nak CA5 / ESP eXO / TPA3255 and Nak PA7 amps / JK Wynn semiactive NS1000 upgrade

  6. #6
    Join Date: Apr 2016

    Location: Gravesend and France

    Posts: 1,383
    I'm paul.

    Default

    That tubing and fittings are not scaffolding, they are used for handrails on steel platforms, stairs and balconies.
    Bakoon 11R Denon DP80 Stax UA-70 Shure Ultra 500 in a Martin Bastin body with jico stylus, project ds2 digital Lii audio crystal 10 tqwt speakers

    Office system, DIY CSS fullrange speakers with aurum cantus G2 ribbons Najda dsp as dac Akai AM-U02 Jvc QL-A51 direct drive turntable
    leema sub. JVC Z4S cart is in the house

    Garage system another Sony receiver, cassette deck


    System components are subject to change without warning and at the discretion of the owner.

  7. #7
    Join Date: Mar 2017

    Location: Seaford UK

    Posts: 1,223
    I'm Dennis.

    Default

    I think it may be "Key Clamp" tubing.

  8. #8
    Join Date: Sep 2011

    Location: County Durham, UK

    Posts: 124
    I'm Gordon.

    Default

    Thanks for posting this Ali. Fascinating build. The bass arrangement reminds me of Celestion's SL6000.

    http://www.audiodesignguide.com/doc/cel6000.jpg

  9. #9
    Join Date: Jan 2020

    Location: South Yorkshire

    Posts: 2,424
    I'm Andre.

    Default

    I remember the review using those '6000' Dipole subs with Quad '63' stats

  10. #10
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Galashiels

    Posts: 13,053
    I'm inthescottishmafia.

    Default

    Aye me too, these put me in mind of them. Never heard any though.
    “Music has always been a matter of energy to me, a question of fuel. Sentimental people call it inspiration, but what they really mean is fuel. I have always needed fuel. I am a serious consumer. On some nights I still believe that a car with the gas needle on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio”

    Hunter S Thompson

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