Technics 1210 Gr vs Modded old skool 1210

[SiT4]

Hi All,

I've not really posted here before but been following threads on here for some time and noticed that since the new generation of decks came out -1210Gr and 1200G - that there is much less talk or excitement for people on Technics DD.
Maybe the boat has sailed for many a while back ? In any case thats why i thought i would post my findings here on my moderately modded 1210 vs the newer GR for any newcomers to this area. Its also posted on PFM but was interested on peoples views over here.

I've been wondering for a while if the latest incarnations of Technics decks are as good as people say they are and after devoting way too much time on the subject I decided that it wasn't enough to read forums or reviews to make a decision and so i finally decided to pit my slightly modded Technics 1210 against a new 1210GR directly in my system.

The system was based around the following elements:

My deck is an Original 1210 with Audio origami rewired arm (internal and external and foam filled), 5mm Achromat and Isonue footers. Cartridges were Ortofon 2M Bronze, Linn Adikt 2 and Linn Troika - recently rebuilt by Goldring. All with stock Technics headshells.
Amps are Avondale Grad1, Avondale 130Z monos with Shahinan Arcs, wired with Black link cable. Phono stages TE microgroove plus set up for MC and Pro-ject Tube Box DS for MM.

The Technics 1210GR for comparison was pretty much brand new with only a little bit of running in, so this may have some impact on the results but not sure how much ? So all elements in the dem were identical in terms of carts - i could just switch the headshells over - and all amps and phonostages were the same.

Artists/Tunes listened to included stuff which gave me enough variety to evaluate the deck properly:
Fatima - 'Yellow memories', Erykah Badu - Worldwide underground,
Sleaford mods- 'Kebab spider', Candi Staton - 'You are', Lankum - "The old man from over the sea',
Planxty - 'True love knows no season', Pere Ubu - 'Humour me', Joni Mitchell - 'Little Green',
Mr Bungle - 'Egg', Dead Can Dance - 'Song of the stars', Frank Zappa - The Grand Wazoo, Keith Jarrett- The Koln Concert, Wagner - Tristan and Isolde.

I should say before i start that with the LP12/Lingo/Aro as my reference for many years that until a couple of years ago i would have written off the Technics pretty quickly for 'serious listening'. i've since thankfully done a complete 180 degree turn on that and for good reason ! Sure, the Technics doesn't do everything as well, but it does a damn good stab at most and some elements of playback are much better - pitch stability and solidity of the sound to name one. You might argue that the LP12 has a very different presentation to make comparisons with the Technics a bit pointless, but i found that once listened side by side over a longer period of time, that i worked out that musically speaking i could enjoy the Technics in a way i hadn't with the LP12.

I think that the main point here for me is also that when you weigh up the cost difference and convenience and lack of fuss that the Technics represents for the sound you get it really did make me question why i put so much faith in the Linn for so long? I know this is hardly news for many of you but it doesn't matter how many other 'experts' may tell you their opinion you have to make your own way and listen to your own ears with this journey.

So onto the dem. First impressions of unboxing the GR is of an excellent overall build quality, as you might expect and as many others have pointed out, the platter is very well machined and maybe better than the original. However there were some parts which seemed much more plasticky and not as well built as my orignal 1210. In particular the VTA mechanism and lift cue had a cheaper and plasticky feel to them, which i didn't expect. The Technics has a much better build quality than the majority of decks but in this context it lacked a little bit against the original. Even the start stop button - which everybody loves pushing - lacked a bit of weight on the GR which i have on my OG deck. These are ultimately small points in real world use, but worth a mention.

When setting up the GR it was pretty much identical to the original apart from a few differences. One which was that the VTA adjustment didn't go down low enough to accomodate carts with a slim body. This i think is a potential problem and required both a headshell spacer and the 5mm Acromat. Shame that Technics have lost a bit of flexibility in these new decks.

I apologise for the length of this post but i thought that the details may be useful. So how did the GR actually sound ??

First impressions where that the deck didn't offer much more than my 1210. And for the first day i found myself switching back and forth a lot wondering what all the fuss was about! But the more i listened differences revealed themselves in a slightly more dynamic sound which had a deeper bass from the GR. With some tracks i felt like the GR had a more driving and rhythmic sound which is some ways i preferred with some of those tunes but with records like Lankum and Keith Jarrett i found myself preferring the presentation of my deck. Solo piano is a real strong point on DD tables and the GR is no exception here. The sound has a solidity to the timing which i really appreciate over belt driven decks.

Another thing i noticed about my modded deck was that the tonality and timbre of instruments was different and i also did seem to prefer the sound of my original deck in this way, but once again as i listened further on the second day the differences seemed to level out, so maybe the GR needed a bit of 'warming up' before revealing its quality. The soundstage also seemed to open up a little on the GR more than my 1210.
Listening to different carts the arm on the GR was able to not only make the most of high quality MM carts which i used but also revealed something of the quality of a decent MC through the right phono stage.

So in conclusion, i found although the 1210GR had a more upfront, and confident sound with deeper bass it wasn't night and day between my older modded 1210 and maybe more crucially i found that musically speaking the GR didn't make me feel like i wanted to listen more than my modded deck and this decided it for me that the differences and improvement, while there,weren't enough to warrant running out and buying a new deck !

Its worth adding that if i were comparing the GR against a stock 1210 with no arm rewire then theres no doubt that the GR would be a definite step up in performance and if anyone is thinking of moving from a stock 1210 and investing in the new range then the differences would be worth the extra outlay. One of the biggest changes i made to my deck was the arm rewire, which transformed it from a dark and closed in sound to a much more open and tonally richer, which, combined with a half decent cart IMO allows this deck to punch way above its weight and payscale.

So after what was over a year toying with whether to change the deck this (in my very subjective opinion) gave me a good insight into the differences and improvements which the Technics 1210GR can bring to the party but more importantly revealed that with just a few well placed mods and half decent cart that a stock standard 1210 is a whole lot of turntable for the money ! The only problem now is it started me thinking about the 1200G !! Here we go again !

Apologies for the length of the post - i hope its of some use ?

[Eagle123]

Hi excellent write up i listened to the gr to my ears it sounded slightly congested from the edges didnt listen to the g but i did listen to the linn sondek.
My main thoughts were pitch stability reliability.
As belts age the pitch will change, another aspect is the cost of upgrading the linn looks to me linn sondek owners, needto upgrade, some of the prices are astronomical
Then there the need for careful adjustment of the sondeck, which time consuming and fairly costly.
Bought the technics g instead.



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[SiT4]

Thanks Eagle,

Thats part of the reason to move away from the LP12, is that the cost of upgrading becomes out of reach for the average pocket, not to mention the faff of setting up and
service etc. Also i don't know if it is just me, but the LP12 seemed to have 'on' and 'off' days where it would sound fantastic and then crap ! (Although to an extent i think all hifi does that.)
But when i listen to the Technics, although its not as involving as my LP12 was on a good day, its much more consistent in sound quality -if that makes sense ?

So you bought the 1200G, how are you finding it and can you explain the differences betweeen it and the GR ?

[Eagle123]

Compare to the gr better build quality heavier plinth better electronics sound wise it more confident sounding actually it better than listening to cds.
I have a ortofon bronze cartridge installed.
Easy to set up the arm is mixture of magnesium alloy, the platter has a brass top plate to dampen vibrations.
One thing i remarked is the absence of surface noise it very quiet.
I havent changed anything like the mat, what i am considering is a better phono preamp.
There a new teac phono preamp coming out am thinking of adding that as my amp doesnt support mc cartridges


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[SiT4]

Ok thats useful, thanks.

is it the 2m Bronze MM cart or the more expensive cadenza bronze MC cart ? I would like to know how good a cart the arm can take ?

thanks

[Eagle123]

Its the bronze mm cartridge as my amp doesnt support mc that why besides its easy upgrade to the black as the stylus is interchangeable and the cartridge body is the same

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[lovejoy]

That's a great write up and makes for very interesting reading. Many thanks for taking the time out to share your findings. Just a few weeks ago I had been pondering buying a 1200G for a bit of a step up from my modded 1210 but none of the local dealers I tried had any in stock and I managed to miss one by mere hours, so instead of mail ordering one, I decided to perform a couple more mods on my existing deck - Changing the snubber values in my already externalised PSU as detailed here: https://theartofsound.net/forum/show...715#post811715 and then stripping the rubber from the inside of the platter and replacing it with a carefully cut piece of Dynamat - Thankfully I was able to remove the existing rubber in one piece and use it as a template. Between the two of these mods, the tunefulness in the bass and layering of detail have improved so much that for now at least, my thirst for upgrading has been quenched..

If anyone does a report on a 1200G vs a modified older 1200 though, then that would surely pique my interest again :-).

[SiT4]

That's a great write up and makes for very interesting reading. Many thanks for taking the time out to share your findings. Just a few weeks ago I had been pondering buying a 1200G for a bit of a step up from my modded 1210 but none of the local dealers I tried had any in stock and I managed to miss one by mere hours, so instead of mail ordering one, I decided to perform a couple more mods on my existing deck - Changing the snubber values in my already externalised PSU as detailed here: https://theartofsound.net/forum/show...715#post811715 and then stripping the rubber from the inside of the platter and replacing it with a carefully cut piece of Dynamat - Thankfully I was able to remove the existing rubber in one piece and use it as a template. Between the two of these mods, the tunefulness in the bass and layering of detail have improved so much that for now at least, my thirst for upgrading has been quenched..

If anyone does a report on a 1200G vs a modified older 1200 though, then that would surely pique my interest again :-).

Thanks for the feedback Richard. I had seen a lot written about the GR on its own or in relation to the G but not much on direct comparisons, which surprised me because i thought this was 'the ' forum for Technics modders ? It sounds very interesting what you did to your deck, was it tricky to strip the rubber and replace it with dynamat ?

[ReggieB]

Really interesting review. I have to admit to not having listened to a Technics 1200. You have made me further feel that I really should have a good listen to one - or at least get moving with the Goldring GL75 project I've got sitting on my study floor.

I add though that I've had a really enjoyable and fruitful time upgrading my LP12. I don't think you have to follow the Linn upgrade path to get a lot more from the deck. There are a lot of 3rd party options out there at a much more reasonable cost. For example, I've found Stack Audio mods to have a very positive effect on my deck without breaking the bank.

Finally, I'd add that the tweakability of turntables is half the pleasure of owning them. It's great that both the Linn and Technics decks are so tweakable.

[SiT4]

Really interesting review. I have to admit to not having listened to a Technics 1200. You have made me further feel that I really should have a good listen to one - or at least get moving with the Goldring GL75 project I've got sitting on my study floor.

I add though that I've had a really enjoyable and fruitful time upgrading my LP12. I don't think you have to follow the Linn upgrade path to get a lot more from the deck. There are a lot of 3rd party options out there at a much more reasonable cost. For example, I've found Stack Audio mods to have a very positive effect on my deck without breaking the bank.

Finally, I'd add that the tweakability of turntables is half the pleasure of owning them. It's great that both the Linn and Technics decks are so tweakable.

Thanks Reggie. Don't get me wrong, i enjoyed my time with the LP12, incuding all the upgrades, just felt it was time for a change.