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Thread: Is Streaming Doomed?

  1. #11
    Join Date: May 2010

    Location: Worcestershire, UK

    Posts: 903
    I'm Rob.

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    I think it's worth making a distinction between streaming from online services like Tidal and Spotify, and streaming from locally stored downloaded or ripped files. The two are different - particularly I think as to what people get from the service. The former does give someone access to a huge range of music at a decent quality. The later can sound excellent and give one the reassurance of ownership (not being tied to the vagaries of a service you have no control over).

    I'm in the later camp. I like downloading and rip music and having my own store of music. However, I still have my CDs and LPs. For me it's just another format - one I like mainly because I can hear or read about a bit of music, try it on something like Youtube, and if I like it, be listening to it in high quality in minutes. All from the comfort of my study chair.

    I still like CDs and LPs. The tactile nature of them is a real pleasure, but I agree that neither format is put into shadow by streamed music. They can all sound good, and in my system to my ears they all do.
    Rob.
    Powered by crossed fingers and clenched buttocks

  2. #12
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 4,446
    I'm Adrian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherwood View Post
    Every generation or so there is an attempt by the music industry to persuade us to re-purchase music we already bought in a new format. The latest model allows us to "rent" at modest cost from a near unlimited library. Whilst vinyl may persist as a "niche" market, I cannot see CDs surviving in the longer term as they have neither the "tangibility" or "nostalgic" lure of the former.

    Personally, I cannot understand the negative attitude by some to streaming, though those not attracted to the model can carry on buying CDs or vinyl ..... for now! I still have a large vinyl collection and a huge cd collection but have gone over almost completely to streaming (either online or my own cd rips). A Tidal subscription allows me to listen to a huge amount of new material that I would never hear without the "rental model".
    Looking to the future when producing co2 as a result of producing energy (electricity) from whatever source, then electricity and its use may become very expensive and even elitist. Using a valuable power resources to run myriads of servers and storage devices around the world to support streaming of any sort may become too costly and even seen as a bad thing, people are already talking about digital carbon footprint. So back to home storage whether analogue or digital of some sort may be the future.

    I did read somewhere that modern tech, mobile phones, computers, tablets, internet and networks was a vast energy consumer already and its may need to be focused on important stuff only in the future. That will be an interesting one to achieve.


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    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound, and accepting you get it wrong sometimes


    Pro-Ject Signature 10 TT & arm, Benz Micro LP-S & Michel Cusis MC cartridge, Furutech AG-12-R4 High Performance Phono Cable, LFD MMC special phono stage, Rothwell MCX SUT, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi to Beresford Caiman SEG DAC, Sony 3d blu-Ray for CDs to Caiman SEG, ALLNIC T1500 MKII SET 300B amp, Wilson Benesch Vector speakers and JBL L100 Century's , Chord Epic speaker leads, & signature links, the Eccose Conductor CA1 cd to pre, I think I am at audio nirvana, but donít tell anyone

  3. #13
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: Notts

    Posts: 2,372
    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJSki2fly View Post
    Looking to the future when producing co2 as a result of producing energy (electricity) from whatever source, then electricity and its use may become very expensive and even elitist. Using a valuable power resources to run myriads of servers and storage devices around the world to support streaming of any sort may become too costly and even seen as a bad thing, people are already talking about digital carbon footprint. So back to home storage whether analogue or digital of some sort may be the future.

    I did read somewhere that modern tech, mobile phones, computers, tablets, internet and networks was a vast energy consumer already and its may need to be focused on important stuff only in the future. That will be an interesting one to achieve.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yes, servers do consume a lot of electricity but increasingly these will be powered by renewable sources. Iceland is developing a huge server industry based upon its abundant and largely "free" geothermal energy.

    Contrast this with the financial and environmental cost of producing physical media such as vinyl and cds; the distribution costs of physical media; and the end of life disposal costs.

  4. #14
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

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    I'm Grant.

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    The world is doomed anyway so lets partay
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    OPPO BDP-103D - JBE SERIES 3/B&O SP1/PROJECT PHONOBOX DS2 USB - QUAD VENA 2 - IFI PURIFIER 2/TWIN PRO MONOBLOCK POWER AMPLIFIERS - LEAF HD BLUETOOTH - OPPO PM-3 PLANAR, SONY H900 & NURAPHONE HEADPHONES - ZBOOK/ IFI SILENCER/WIN10 PRO/ROON - SMSL M6 DAC & IFI SILENCER - RPI 3+, DIGIONE HAT/VOLUMIO2 - EDINGDALE MK1 SPEAKERS - CABLE INC CHORD, MOGAMI, SUPRA & WIREWORLD

    **Men are not punished for their sins, but by them**Don't be such a big girl's blouse!**
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  5. #15
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: Notts

    Posts: 2,372
    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by struth View Post
    The world is doomed anyway so lets partay
    Agreed. I feel great sympathy for the younger generation. What a world to be born into. We are running headlong to extinction.

  6. #16
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 4,446
    I'm Adrian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherwood View Post
    Yes, servers do consume a lot of electricity but increasingly these will be powered by renewable sources. Iceland is developing a huge server industry based upon its abundant and largely "free" geothermal energy.

    Contrast this with the financial and environmental cost of producing physical media such as vinyl and cds; the distribution costs of physical media; and the end of life disposal costs.
    I agree but even even creating energy from neutral sources has a carbon footprint from building it to maintenance and in the long term replacing it, I am not saying it isn't better than other forms of energy generation, but it is not necessarily clear cut. Also how efficient the Green generated power (electricity) is used is pretty important as well. I believe a recent study at an American university worked out the total carbon footprint of building a Tesla, maintaining it for 10 years, running it for 100K miles and then scraping it, and compared that with an equivalent petrol driven car, sadly the petrol car had the lower carbon footprint. At present in the UK we are around 50% green electricity generated for our current needs, I am not sure how long the forecast is to get to 100% but it is certainly quite a few years into the future. If you add to that +30 million electric cars then I think the amount of daily required generated electricity required is massively increased, so it will be interesting how and where a country like the UK will being getting its Electric power to support its needs.

    Also I have been told that to produce one litre of ethanol for bio-fuel use produces a bigger carbon footprint than producing the same in petrol, so this implies ethanol as a additive to replace petrol is not such a great idea, apart form the fact that large organisations are destroying/burning vast swaths of forests(the lungs of the Earth) and planting cereals to then produce bio-fuels, this all seems a bit cock-eyed to me.

    Don't get me wrong I don't think fossil fuel burning is the way forward I just don't think the right solutions have been thought through and the total environmental impacts. It is interesting how certain other technologies have been rubbished or resisted by large corporations as they probably would impact control and profits long term.
    [FONT="Arial"]
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound, and accepting you get it wrong sometimes


    Pro-Ject Signature 10 TT & arm, Benz Micro LP-S & Michel Cusis MC cartridge, Furutech AG-12-R4 High Performance Phono Cable, LFD MMC special phono stage, Rothwell MCX SUT, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi to Beresford Caiman SEG DAC, Sony 3d blu-Ray for CDs to Caiman SEG, ALLNIC T1500 MKII SET 300B amp, Wilson Benesch Vector speakers and JBL L100 Century's , Chord Epic speaker leads, & signature links, the Eccose Conductor CA1 cd to pre, I think I am at audio nirvana, but donít tell anyone

  7. #17
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: Notts

    Posts: 2,372
    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJSki2fly View Post
    I agree but even even creating energy from neutral sources has a carbon footprint from building it to maintenance and in the long term replacing it, I am not saying it isn't better than other forms of energy generation, but it is not necessarily clear cut. Also how efficient the Green generated power (electricity) is used is pretty important as well. I believe a recent study at an American university worked out the total carbon footprint of building a Tesla, maintaining it for 10 years, running it for 100K miles and then scraping it, and compared that with an equivalent petrol driven car, sadly the petrol car had the lower carbon footprint. At present in the UK we are around 50% green electricity generated for our current needs, I am not sure how long the forecast is to get to 100% but it is certainly quite a few years into the future. If you add to that +30 million electric cars then I think the amount of daily required generated electricity required is massively increased, so it will be interesting how and where a country like the UK will being getting its Electric power to support its needs.

    Also I have been told that to produce one litre of ethanol for bio-fuel use produces a bigger carbon footprint than producing the same in petrol, so this implies ethanol as a additive to replace petrol is not such a great idea, apart form the fact that large organisations are destroying/burning vast swaths of forests(the lungs of the Earth) and planting cereals to then produce bio-fuels, this all seems a bit cock-eyed to me.

    Don't get me wrong I don't think fossil fuel burning is the way forward I just don't think the right solutions have been thought through and the total environmental impacts. It is interesting how certain other technologies have been rubbished or resisted by large corporations as they probably would impact control and profits long term.
    Renewable technology is improving continuously and will eventually displace fossil fuels (if we survive that long!). However, I don't think that that energy consumption is a major impediment to streaming, even now.

  8. #18
    Join Date: Apr 2018

    Location: South East Cornwall

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    I'm Dominic.

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    We will all be going back to wind up clockwork gramophones, you mark my words
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  9. #19
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 65,970
    I'm Grant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonuffin View Post
    We will all be going back to wind up clockwork gramophones, you mark my words
    Ive got 2 so am ok
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    OPPO BDP-103D - JBE SERIES 3/B&O SP1/PROJECT PHONOBOX DS2 USB - QUAD VENA 2 - IFI PURIFIER 2/TWIN PRO MONOBLOCK POWER AMPLIFIERS - LEAF HD BLUETOOTH - OPPO PM-3 PLANAR, SONY H900 & NURAPHONE HEADPHONES - ZBOOK/ IFI SILENCER/WIN10 PRO/ROON - SMSL M6 DAC & IFI SILENCER - RPI 3+, DIGIONE HAT/VOLUMIO2 - EDINGDALE MK1 SPEAKERS - CABLE INC CHORD, MOGAMI, SUPRA & WIREWORLD

    **Men are not punished for their sins, but by them**Don't be such a big girl's blouse!**
    ***SMILE, BE HAPPY***

    RIP Terry... "We use only the finest baby frogs, dew picked and flown from Iraq, cleansed in finest quality spring water, lightly killed, and then sealed in a succulent Swiss quintuple smooth treble cream milk chocolate envelope and lovingly frosted with glucose."

  10. #20
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 27,055
    I'm Martin.

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    I've got a guitar so can always make my own music if push comes to shove. I mean that's what they did in the olden days.

    It just won't be very good.

    Big problem facing streaming services is that they aren't making any profit. So something will have to change at some point.
    Current Lash Up:

    *Sony SCD XB790QS* Nelson Pass DCB1 / Krell KSA100 mkII * JM Lab Electra 926 *


    'You fool! To think that your ape-brain could contain the full knowledge of the Krell!'

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