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Thread: Is Streaming Doomed?

  1. #51
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dave2010 View Post
    Plus if you have the CD you can (or could ...) play it in a car - if there's a CD player, which is getting rare these days, or rip it (which is technically lillegal in the UK) to a memory stick. OK - I know that some streaming services provide an "off-line" mode and that "everyone" uses a smartphone these days (I don't, but I have one, which I don't use) which they use to play music.

    I used to copy CDs for use in my car - to keep the originals in good condition, but I'm happy to use the ones I buy from charity shops in cars. Sometimes I rip several to mp3 - so I can get about 5 CDs on one disc.

    To be fair to younger people, a large collection takes up quite a lot of space - and many people don't have a lot of living space, or the time to listen either.
    I think you would have to have thousands of CDs before the space they take up really became an issue, even if you live in a box room. A couple of hundred will fit in a small box that would slide under a bed, you could probably get ten such boxes under a single bed. People don't tend to want 'clutter' these days so I can understand that argument, but not the 'takes up too much space' one. On two occasions I've lived in rooms no larger than 10' by 7' and there was never a space issue with storing CDs and LPs, I also had big four way floortstanders in there too. No compromise!

    I'd propose a hybrid solution whereby you own say your favourite one thousand albums on CD, then you have the versions you want of those albums with known provenance and for which access to that music can't be arbitrarily taken away from you or the recordings messed about with, and everything else you stream. For convenience you could copy the cds and stream them locally, but you always have the archive tucked away somewhere.
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  2. #52
    Join Date: Feb 2013

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    got about a thousand cds at a guess. ive aleady boxed some as they were becoming unwieldy in livingroom. the box wasnt huge by any means but when filled it was damned heavy
    Last edited by struth; 18-01-2020 at 15:25.
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  3. #53
    Join Date: Apr 2010

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    Just checked. Have 9800 tracks on Lossless iTunes on HDD-or 2 iPods - (all from my own CDs). The actual CDs are 'hard copy' in store.Often feel I could exist quite happily on this (without further addition)
    I occasionally use Spotify to check out a new name.

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  4. #54
    Join Date: Apr 2017

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    Struggling to understand what the issue is here. No single source format covers all the options as far as I’m concerned, just find the one that suits you best and compromise on the rest.

    I find that Tidal streaming covers most of my listening needs for the most part (and certainly beats the pants off the pretty decent CD transport/Dac I have). I also have a drive with ripped FLAC content which is also accessed alongside Tidal.

    Having said that, Tidal doesn’t have all the content that Spotify has, nor does Spotify have some of the CD’s and LP’s that I have. To that end I still keep CD and Vinyl replay options to cover the legacy, but my streaming setup is still the main focus.

    Storage of legacy CD’s is no big deal, just use 200+ type CD storage cases and keep the CD inserts and CDs, ditch the boxes.

    I’m not going to hazard a guess at what the future holds for source formats, as frankly, I don’t think it warrants the angst or effort, will deal with it when I need too.


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  5. #55
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

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    Quote Originally Posted by mightymonoped View Post
    Struggling to understand what the issue is here. No single source format covers all the options as far as I’m concerned, just find the one that suits you best and compromise on the rest.

    ......


    I’m not going to hazard a guess at what the future holds for source formats, as frankly, I don’t think it warrants the angst or effort, will deal with it when I need too.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I think the issue is whether Streaming across the internet will remain to be a viable audio service in the future.

    My views are:

    1. Yes, but probably at a not an insignificant cost to the end user, to support infrastructure, royalty payment and so on, and as we already know the higher the so called SQ the higher the fee will be. I suspect the £25-40 price model will soon be about as low as it will get. It will be commercially looked at from the perspective of an average punter previously buying 2-3 CD's a month, about 30-40 tracks at £1 each. I am just waiting for Spotify to close the free usage door, unless they can up advertising revenue, especially having captured lots of users already.

    2. Streaming is unlikely to disappear as younger generations effectively brought into the concept with the advent of iTunes, Apple Music Match and access to the whole iTunes catalogue for a fee, and of course a lot use Spotify and/or Youtube for free or pay about £9 a month to Spotify for so called better SQ. I doubt many are too bothered about the SQ, more interested in listening on the go and the latest tunes, and creating playlists. This is a fact I work with them, and they consider me an old weirdo (I probably am) for listening to albums, and having CDs and LPs for a music collection. They actually think listening to music on a pair of £100-300 in EarPods or a pair of wireless speakers is great SQ. The fact that a lot of currently produced music is specifically mixed so that the dynamic range is lost to make it better to listen to on headphones is lost on them, its what they know and are used to. To be honest what I have is described is all they can afford and as far as they are concerned is VFM for them.

    3. Streaming Providers will come and go, some will be sucked up by others, ultimately a few 2 or 3 will find the perfect business model, and appeal to the masses as well, much like FaceTime, Google, and Twitter have taken over the world.

    I am sure there are other relevant points, but that's my main take on it.
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  6. #56
    Join Date: May 2010

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    Streaming is a fantastic way of hearing new and well-loved music. Long may it continue.
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  7. #57
    Join Date: Mar 2008

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    I'm Simon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dave2010 View Post
    Very slightly different, but essentially the same technology - tonight we tried to watch live TV (ITV) via broadband. For various reasons we do that quite often. We can't get good Freeview in this location, but we can get satellite TV, so sometimes we watch that instead, but mostly we have shifted to broadband - the so-called Negroponte shift.

    Usually it works well enough, though sometimes there are bufferings issues and drop outs. Tonight we had one of the weirdest problems. We paused the stream during an advert break, but when we resumed the video and audio were totally unlinked. I don't mean slght - a small lip sync issue - I mean the audio didn't even seem to relate to the scenes being shown. We stopped the stream and tried to kickstart it again. I believe that streaminig audio could have similar problems on occasion - though many people will of course get reasonable quality if they live in an area with good broadband. Actually our broadband ought to be very good, as we're almost right on top of the local distribution point, but athough we can often get 60+mbps, we still do get buffering issues.

    Compare that with owning CDs - of which I have many. Yes - it's a pain to have to go to get the boxes out of the room down the corridor, and to choose a CD, or one out of a large box of CDs, but once done almost all of them play well. The quality is mostly very good, and I'm afraid to say my choice is pretty huge. Also, I may have some CDs which are not on streaming services, though I agree that some streaming services have a huge choice. I'm not sure that all streaming services are prepared to keep a library of recordings going back 50 or more years, and there are pieces which are certainly worth hearing from long bygone eras.

    An added complication is that if a streaming or download service fails, or merges with another company, the rules change, and customers may find that the service they thought they were getting "for ever" is now not what it was. This has happened already several times, and it is likely to continue to happen in the future.
    I agree with your point regarding the catalogue - I subscribe to Amazon HD and Google Play, between them they seem to cover most of the gaps in each other.

    But then I have jazz and classical recordings that never saw the light of day on CD either, I think that will happen regardless of what format comes next.

    I would also criticise every streaming service for poor UI and and ropey search engines. My CDs have all been put in to storage, and there will be some I can't get on a steaming service - Swamp Terrorists being one band I can't get but can get some tracks on youtube.

    The availability and being able to spend an evening chilling looking for new music for outweighs the need to own a physical medium, especially one as horrible as CD.

    A few years ago I never thought I would say that or be listening to music this way, but a bit like ebooks, I want to own the big reference books but I don't need to own a novel anymore, especially when I can carry 300 of them in my pocket.

    There will always be the collector for whom the object is more important then the actual content it carries.

  8. #58
    Join Date: Jan 2020

    Location: South Yorkshire

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    I'm Andre.

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    Im getting the impression that people are mixing up Streaming & just playing files on your computer system.. Streaming is Doomed with me cos there are too many problems..I do still use Lossless files however i have yet to find a media player programme that is simple, gapless. I presently use Busybee which is ok but it wont access my files from outboard HDD or SD card, you have to load them into the playlist... I have had a major sort out & got shut of hundreds of CDs in the name of simplicity + less & less time on my hands.. The lossless music files are all from my own CD's, i refuse to source them from elsewhere..

    I think this is pretty much the future for me. I bought another recod deck but i wont buy re issues nor pay for old records so im gonna cut that in the bud straight away.. I dont need a record player anyway other than a nostalgia illness i have..
    Last edited by Made in 1968; 19-01-2020 at 13:39.

  9. #59
    Join Date: Feb 2010

    Location: Moved to frozen north, beyond Inverness

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    I'm Dave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by griffo104 View Post
    A few years ago I never thought I would say that or be listening to music this way, but a bit like ebooks, I want to own the big reference books but I don't need to own a novel anymore, especially when I can carry 300 of them in my pocket.

    There will always be the collector for whom the object is more important then the actual content it carries.
    Don't many of us actually use several different ways to play music on our systems? There doesn't have to be just one way. There are of course costs of having more than one way - equipment costs, space taken up by kit, storage of the media, but some of us do that for two or more modes. Why?

    It's a mixture of convenience, and desire for quality, and also perhaps fear that in some cases cherished recordings will become unavailable.

    Many people don't like music sufficiently to be bothered, but that still leaves perhaps 1-5% of us who do care. People who go to live concerts - of whatever variety - pop festivals, jazz in pubs, folk music, classical concerts.

    People who listen to recorded music will surely always try to balance up feasibilty and costs against the benefits, whatever the modes. Some people will always chase after the tingle factor - if it's there to be had, while others may be happy enough (or think they are) with relatively dull presentations. Some of the cons can be showstoppers for some - for example no gapless playback - a killer for people who listen to music with tracks which should flow seamlessly together. There are many factors, and no absolutely definitive "answer" which will suit everybody.

    Perhaps it isn't a "good thing" that some of us try out different kit and ways of listening. We may contribute to the piles of "junk" which is amassed, and which will probably go to landfill when we die. Does it really matter? I'm not sure.
    Dave

  10. #60
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Newport

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    I'm Simon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dave2010 View Post
    Don't many of us actually use several different ways to play music on our systems? There doesn't have to be just one way. There are of course costs of having more than one way - equipment costs, space taken up by kit, storage of the media, but some of us do that for two or more modes. Why?

    It's a mixture of convenience, and desire for quality, and also perhaps fear that in some cases cherished recordings will become unavailable.

    Many people don't like music sufficiently to be bothered, but that still leaves perhaps 1-5% of us who do care. People who go to live concerts - of whatever variety - pop festivals, jazz in pubs, folk music, classical concerts.

    People who listen to recorded music will surely always try to balance up feasibilty and costs against the benefits, whatever the modes. Some people will always chase after the tingle factor - if it's there to be had, while others may be happy enough (or think they are) with relatively dull presentations. Some of the cons can be showstoppers for some - for example no gapless playback - a killer for people who listen to music with tracks which should flow seamlessly together. There are many factors, and no absolutely definitive "answer" which will suit everybody.

    Perhaps it isn't a "good thing" that some of us try out different kit and ways of listening. We may contribute to the piles of "junk" which is amassed, and which will probably go to landfill when we die. Does it really matter? I'm not sure.
    I agree with a lot of what you write there. Qobuz in particular annoyed me with the lack of gapless playback - it does frustrate.

    My hifi got put in to storage due to the emergence of dogs and grandchildren running around and not wanting my much loved Michel Orbe SE to be damaged.

    Most of my listening now happens on headphones, when the wife wants to watch her soaps and medical programmes on tv and I want to relax with music and read a good book.

    It's only recent;y I've returned to hifi forums having been away for a very long time and this is due to wanting to get a computer based system up and running. I can cast to my second system which is still out downstairs (Denon amp with Totem Dreamcatchers), I can cast to the Google nest and Echo Dot, but for me being a snobby audiophile, the last two simply aren't good enough but the wife and grandchildren love them, so now I have dacs, headphone amps and connect them up with interconnects that cost more than the chi-fi cost altogether,

    I also listen to a huge range of music, mainly (very) heavy metal, industrial, punk, electronica, classical and jazz - all genres which struggle with getting albums on these streaming services but also difficult in actually buying some of these in physical media. I'm lucky that we still have a "proper" record shop here in Newport (if little else). You want to try and find a certain version of a classical recording on any of these streaming services - none of them are geared up to it.

    I have 20 years of hifi up in the loft, which sadly, may well end up in landfill after all how much am I going to get for Audio Analogue Maestro CDP nowadays? and then weigh up the cost of sending a 20kg CDP through the post. I still have a my top end Denon multiformat DVD player (remember those?) and it's been even longer since I bought an SACD than a CD.

    I now have my tingle factor back and it's in the discovery of new music at my fingertips and the fact I can still replay it at a very high level to cure my sonic needs.

    I don't believe streaming is dead by a long way, my kids don't get CD so what will my grandkids make of it? will they get nostalgic for it when they are growing up with a huge library of music available by just talking to a speaker? I have a 1000 records and a decent deck still out of the loft in the hope one day my grandkids will ask me about them and take an interest. I doubt they will take any interest in CD though.

    my hope is one day someone will do a Guttenberg Project for music and store these great recordings before we lose them and make them available to all.

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