Is Streaming Doomed?

[AJSki2fly]

Are any of them musical or musicians? I think that may make a difference. I am somewhat older than you and I can still tell the difference between grotty sound and something better, and I know which I prefer. I do go to quite a lot of live events.

I don’t know about the activities of younger people. Some may have damaged hearing due to listening to music too loud, while others may simply have become used to the sound of poor quality recordings. It is possible that some may have no idea what good quality systems or recordings sound like. If the only sounds people listen to are recordings they are unlikely to have a clue what good quality sound experiences are like.

Yes it is interesting if you get an earlier generation to listen to a reasonable system playing different media. I got this with my niece and nephew, 24 and 26 at the time. Both listen mainly on the go to a variety of genres using headphones from mobile phones, but they also listen using WiFi speakers, not great IMO.

I sat them down and I had selected 3 tracks, for each I had CD, Vinyl, streamed hi-res, and 320kbps MP3. I said we would play each version in no particular order and blind, and they should write what format they thought each was each was and mark their favourite from purely a SQ perspective. If they were not sure after going through all 3 we would repeat listening but again randomly blind. I went to great lengths before to equalise the volume when playing each track in whatever format, by measuring Spl and noting down volume setting for each. I did not want differences in volume affecting the listening experience.

In general the results were:-

They clearly identified each MP3, saying it sounded odd, primarily dull and/or boomy, their words not mine.

Only one track could they tell which was CD and which was Hi-Res, they both like them the sound quality of all 3 tracks.

The vinyl tracks were interesting, they did not hear the lead in or out of any tracks, for any media so it made it harder to identify a vinyl replay. They knew one was vinyl but was not sure about the two others initially. After the first listen to all 3 tracks, they both preferred the vinyl renditions saying it just sounded more natural and involving. After the second play of the 3 tracks randomly for all media they quickly identified the vinyl replay.

So what’s the point, they both enjoy music and listen a lot, they both said if they ever had the room and money then they would buy a reasonable hifi, with turntable and buy their favourite music on vinyl if available, and if not then Stream at hi-res when at home, and continue to listen at lower quality on the go. Interestingly they now comment occasionally to me about some new music releases sounding bad, and annoying to hear.

[Discopants]

I only had a few dozen cds and Im environmentally friendly, so when I got back into hifi at 47. Streaming was the obvious choice to invest in.

Im on spotify premium £10/month although I will step up to family for 15.

My other source is netflix / amazon prime and you tube via apple tv.

After paying careful attention to power conditioning, I’m using conventional Isotek and some esoteric tweaks. Ive also made efforts to control the room, vibrations of all system components and some rfi shielding.

I’m getting really really good SQ from the system for all sources. I recently added an audiophile switch to the system and that was the icing on the cake really pleasing improvement.


Streaming is very much capable of delivering truly great sound but its much trickier to implement than most people assume. As a medium its very much the digital future.


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[AJSki2fly]

I only had a few dozen cds and Im environmentally friendly, so when I got back into hifi at 47. Streaming was the obvious choice to invest in.
..........
Streaming is very much capable of delivering truly great sound but its much trickier to implement than most people assume. As a medium its very much the digital future.


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Sorry but for me digital whether CD or Streamed really does not deliver at the same level as analogue in terms of presence and dynamic presentation. I am someone who converted totally to CD for 25+years and has taken up streaming, but even so I only now use it for convenience listening, I Have reverted to analogue for my primary listening experience as it sounds more natural/real, at least to me anyway.

There are and have been many discussions on the topic but digitised music as it stands today does change the way it sounds, maybe it will improve over time, with more data and faster chips.

[Made in 1968]

I prefer Vinyl for 12" singles only.. Digital is not only convenient i just find it so much easier to source music i want in Digital. I have to admit that had not listen to vinyl for quite sometime the first play i did recognise a more expansive sound.. all the same, Digital will always be the primary source.. However i utterly refuse to stream music from the internet had one week of that to last me a lifetime..

[Discopants]

Sorry but for me digital whether CD or Streamed really does not deliver at the same level as analogue in terms of presence and dynamic presentation.

There are and have been many discussions on the topic but digitised music as it stands today does change the way it sounds, maybe it will improve over time, with more data and faster chips.

I didn’t say it was easy , but you can get great sound quality from 320kbps. There is plenty of data there, all you miss out on is 19khz + and thats no use to me personally nor many others.

I measured 80db of dynamic range (crudely with an app at my listening position). Listening to Mahler’s 2nd symphony the other day Wienna Philharmonica and Gilbert Kaplan. Volume set to -5dB from reference. Absolutely stunning, no distortion , no clipping incredible detail and tone, you can only get about 12dB of true dynamic range out of an LP.



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[Made in 1968]

Can i ask why do people entertain MP-3 when they can have WAV or FLAC! FLAC is free, are peeps so strapped for disc space?

[AJSki2fly]

I didn’t say it was easy , but you can get great sound quality from 320kbps. There is plenty of data there, all you miss out on is 19khz + and thats no use to me personally nor many others.

I measured 80db of dynamic range (crudely with an app at my listening position). Listening to Mahler’s 2nd symphony the other day Wienna Philharmonica and Gilbert Kaplan. Volume set to -5dB from reference. Absolutely stunning, no distortion , no clipping incredible detail and tone, you can only get about 12dB of true dynamic range out of an LP.



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Actually that your 12dB statement is not true, and you are ignoring some important facts have a read of these https://www.audioholics.com/audio-te...-part-4-page-2

https://www.analogplanet.com/content...eres-some-math

They explain much better than I.


Another point is that 320kbps digital files are lossy so you are definitely not hearing as it was originally. I have done several AXB comparisons of lossy to lossless files of the same material from the same master and can identify the lossy in the majority of cases. It is harder to hear the difference when the original already has high frequency noise present.


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[Discopants]

Can i ask why do people entertain MP-3 when they can have WAV or FLAC! FLAC is free, are peeps so strapped for disc space?

I have no disc space, I have no discs.

From what I have read once you get to 320kbps it gets very difficult for the vast majority of folks to hear the difference between 320kbps and redbook. There are a handful of people who can reliably pick out the differences everytime. I cant do it much more than sheer luck, i might get 6 out of 10 right

The difference between redbook and those hi rez sampling formats is almost impossible for anyone to hear a difference. I suspect some folks can (maybe some blind folks)

If you want to electronically digitise your CD collections then I can see having lossless files is the way to go, then you can truly convert to any and all existing and future formats.

I’m trying to keep my playback system as simple as possible (for now, thats not to say I wont try out something like an innuos zen challenge that at some point).




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[struth]

yeah id buy a couple of cheapish 500gb drives and use something like db, or jriver to put them on a drive in flac. then copy it over to the backup.. that way its all there and safe as it should be on a cd... no need to ever rip it again. odds on both drives going together are slim.
then you can convert and save over to another storage system in 320kb .. a flas drive is a cheap storage solution, and most cars take them and read mp3

also use flac over wav as it handles the metadata properly

[Made in 1968]

I beg to differ but i can hear a difference as well as all the issues i encountered.