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Thread: Moving coil experiment

  1. #1
    Join Date: Aug 2015

    Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

    Posts: 27
    I'm Kevan.

    Default Moving coil experiment

    Hi, I am considering trying a moving coil cartridge to replace the current favourite a Stanton EEE. Neither of my set ups has an MC input one using a Quad 33 the other a Graham Slee phono stage. Should I be thinking about a high output cartridge like the Denon DL 110 or something else and SUT or MC phono stage? As this is to an extent an experiment I am looking for an “economic” first step. Any suggestions welcome!

    AVO 111


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    Main System:
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  2. #2
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,624
    I'm Geoff.

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    Unfortunately, there is no really satisfactory cheap intro to MC cartridges. Low cost MC's tend to be nothing special and high output examples seem to offer little over a decent MM cart. Even worse is a cheap SUT, as that will always disappoint.

    The DL-110 is lively, but a little unruly. I'd sooner go for a DL-103 with a good MC phono stage or SUT although the 103 lacks decent analysis at the top end. The DL-103R is more refined and worth the extra cost.
    It is impossible for anything digital to sound analogue, because it isn't analogue!

  3. #3
    Join Date: Apr 2016

    Location: Gravesend and France

    Posts: 1,498
    I'm paul.

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    A good mc phono stage will be very expensive or not very good. A decent step up is more affordable and probably easier to move on when the time comes. Klaus Hurler sells pretty good step ups on eBay and can match one to the cart of your choosing. I had one from him to suit a 103r,
    Bakoon 13r Denon DP80 Stax UA-70 Shure Ultra 500 in a Martin Bastin body with jico stylus, project ds2 digital Rullit aero 8 field coils in tqwt speakers

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  4. #4
    Join Date: Jul 2010

    Location: Cheltenham

    Posts: 982
    I'm Charlie.

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    If your SME 3009 Imp has a detachable head shell, the tonearm effective mass 9.5g. You would need a medium to high compliance cartridge to work well in it to minimise low freq resonance on warps. Some of the Audio Technica And older Ortofon MC carts light work in the SME. The Denons will have far too low compliance to work well.
    R2R: Studer A820 1/2 inch 2 track; Otari MTR-12 1/4 inch 2 track; Sony APR 5003; Sony APR 5002; Studer A807/II. Vinyl: Platine Verdier Allaerts MC1B/Schroeder Reference & Model 2 Decca C4E/Hadcock 228 TRON Seven Reference phono. Keith Monks MkII RCM Other analogue source: Nakamichi Dragon with ANT4066 mods. Amplification: TRON Meteor preamp TRON Voyager 20B SET power. Speakers: Avantgarde Duo. Digital: computing at last with Prism Sound Lyra 2 A2D converter

  5. #5
    Join Date: Feb 2010

    Location: Moved to frozen north, beyond Inverness

    Posts: 2,602
    I'm Dave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    The DL-110 is lively, but a little unruly. I'd sooner go for a DL-103 with a good MC phono stage or SUT although the 103 lacks decent analysis at the top end. The DL-103R is more refined and worth the extra cost.
    DL103R - a tad under £300 - https://www.amazon.co.uk/DENON-DL-10...ASIN=B000OY3CF

    What would you recommend for a matching step up transformer, or MC phono stage - with expected costs?
    Dave

  6. #6
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 13,241
    I'm Adrian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dave2010 View Post
    DL103R - a tad under £300 - https://www.amazon.co.uk/DENON-DL-10...ASIN=B000OY3CF

    What would you recommend for a matching step up transformer, or MC phono stage - with expected costs?
    You could try one of these, http://www.rothwellaudioproducts.co....ransforme.html, occasionally they come up secondhand, they are generally very good. I use the MCX model into an LFD Phonostage, and it gives a very good result.
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound, and accepting you get it wrong sometimes.

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  7. #7
    Join Date: Mar 2014

    Location: KY - Scotland

    Posts: 5,465
    I'm Mike.

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    I'm about to advertise a boxed Denon 103R and an Aluminium Bodycap if that's of any interest.

    117 hours use, kept a note of running time with a timer on my phone.

    Let me know if interested and I'll sort out the advert.


  8. #8
    Join Date: Jul 2013

    Location: Kingsbury, NW London

    Posts: 1,232
    I'm Clive.

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    Stick to Moving Magnate (MM) cartridge’s. Most will work very well with an SME and will have greater bang for your buck over a budget MC.
    If you can find a low hrs Ortofon ML25 then you will be well on your way. If a little more money is available then Ortofon 2M Black would be my recommendation, with its Shibata stylus you will be very close to MC sound in the £300-600 price range.
    SOURCE:OPPO UDP-205 BluRay, SkyQ, Technics SL1210M5G/HexMat Eclipse/MN Bearing/Origin Live Gravity One puck/Isonoes with Boots/Jelco TK-850S Tonearm/Hana Umami Blue, PS Audio Stellar Phonostage. I also have an AT-OC9XSH as a spare cartridge.
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  9. #9
    Join Date: May 2013

    Location: Rotherham

    Posts: 693
    I'm steve.

    Default Moving coil experiment

    Have to disagree with the comment as to the Denon 110 being unruly, I had one for quite a while and thought it was a very good sounding and refined presentation, my only criticism was that it lacked a bit in the dynamics department with rock music, for other musical genres it was very good. As to low output MCs it isn’t necessary to pay a fortune to get good sound, I’ve been using an Audio Technica ATF7 for almost 2 years now and find it excellent, it will track anything at 2g downforce and to my mind it is vice free, lab tests show it has the mildest of lifts at hf amounting to 1-2db gradually rising above 8khz which a younger listener might be sensitive to but which I personally (at age 67) find beneficial.
    It can be had at around the £200 mark at which price it’s a real bargain IMO, A friend of mine has the cheaper ATF2 (around £140) as well as an ATF7 and he says that there’s very little if anything in it for sound quality, only difference is a nude elliptical on the 7 and shank mounted on the 2. As to MC phono stages I use mine with a Cambridge CP2 which suits it well, tried the ATF7 with a Rega Fono MC which I borrowed for a few days and that sounded even better but the wallet wouldn’t run to it. Another AOS member recently bought the new ATOC9XEB which he’s finding excellent but it is a little more expensive.


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  10. #10
    Join Date: Apr 2015

    Location: london

    Posts: 162
    I'm martin.

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    MC can sound really great, but, in my experience, only as part of a perfectly matched system. I've accumulated quite a few relatively nice MC cartridges and enjoy them, but every time I go back to the Shure Ultra 500 (for example) - there doesn't seem to be anything lacking.

    In my opinion, tonearm choice, turntable and the setup are way more important than a phono stage. A nice phono stage is an excellence pursuit and not key to enjoying the music.

    I also think that the Denon 110 is a very fine cartridge.

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