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Thread: Boris big win.

  1. #171
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slawts View Post
    If you look at London it is predominately Labour. Corbyn isn't Labour. He is a communist and it would have taken this country back to the 70's but without decent music.

    I passed my driving test in Blyth so was delighted when they voted for Levy as their MP.

    I think you should look to what happened with Labour and why they were deserted by their core supporters couldn't stomach voting for a London-centric labour party.

    BJ was a good mayor and could well turn out to be a good PM. Not that you will ever admit it.
    I won't admit it because I fundamentally don't believe it. He was a good mayor because he only cares about London. He doesn't give a toss about the rest of the country, especially Scotland.

    And besides, as a Scot, my allegiances are with "Krankie" and SNP/Scottish independence, not Labour. I only voted for Labour this time to try and keep the Tories out of Wrexham, where I live (pre-election a marginal Labour seat), but that failed due to idiots who swallowed the Tory rhetoric and superficial vote-winning claptrap of 'Let's Get Brexit Done', hook line and sinker, thus switching their allegiances to the Tories, which in a working class town such as Wrexham is akin to turkeys voting for Christmas!

    Marco.
    "Count your age by friends, not years. Count your life by smiles, not tears” - John Lennon.

    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace" - Jimi Hendrix.

    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

  2. #172
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeandvan View Post
    I think many who voted Brexit will wonder what they voted for, I don't think Boris will even deliver the Brexit they wanted. That doesn't make Labour anymore electable to these people, again, why is that? Why did Labour fail so spectacularly to connect with their core voters? Because it was seen as being the party of Momentum, of conspiracy minded, identity politics obsessed, Israel hating mupppets.
    In your humble opinion

    I have other ideas.

    Marco.
    "Count your age by friends, not years. Count your life by smiles, not tears” - John Lennon.

    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace" - Jimi Hendrix.

    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

  3. #173
    Join Date: Oct 2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    I won't admit it because I fundamentally don't believe it. He was a good mayor because he only cares about London. He doesn't give a toss about the rest of the country, especially Scotland.

    And besides, as a Scot, my allegiances are with "Krankie" and SNP/Scottish independence, not Labour. I only voted for Labour this time to try and keep the Tories out of Wrexham, where I live (pre-election a marginal Labour seat), but that failed due to idiots who swallowed the Tory rhetoric and superficial vote-winning claptrap of 'Let's Get Brexit Done', hook line and sinker, thus switching their allegiances to the Tories, which in a working class town such as Wrexham is akin to turkeys voting for Christmas!

    Marco.
    We will all find out but I will tell you a story.

    When I was a schoolboy in the 70's I was collecting for Barnardos in St Andrew's Square and an owld biddie came up and said are you collecting for Scottish Barnardos or English Barnardos.

    I had no idea, I was only 13. She took a leaflet and buggered off. What is the difference? Kids in trouble are kids in trouble.

    WE are a union and should stay a union.
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  4. #174
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    I don't disagree at all with your sentiments, but the situation in this case is a little more complex than that.

    Marco.
    "Count your age by friends, not years. Count your life by smiles, not tears” - John Lennon.

    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace" - Jimi Hendrix.

    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

  5. #175
    Join Date: May 2012

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    I'm Allen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    I won't admit it because I fundamentally don't believe it. He was a good mayor because he only cares about London. He doesn't give a toss about the rest of the country, especially Scotland.

    And besides, as a Scot, my allegiances are with "Krankie" and SNP/Scottish independence, not Labour. I only voted for Labour this time to try and keep the Tories out of Wrexham, where I live (pre-election a marginal Labour seat), but that failed due to idiots who swallowed the Tory rhetoric and superficial vote-winning claptrap of 'Let's Get Brexit Done', hook line and sinker, thus switching their allegiances to the Tories, which in a working class town such as Wrexham is akin to turkeys voting for Christmas!

    Marco.
    Run that by me one more time please

    Please note , I cant spell , now you all know

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  6. #176
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    Ha - well, daftee, as I've stated here many times before, my nationality is Scottish, my ethnicity (a very different thing) is Italian; indeed I have both a British and Italian passport (the latter which could prove useful post-Brexit), and my arse is very much Welsh (sheep-shagger)



    Marco.
    "Count your age by friends, not years. Count your life by smiles, not tears” - John Lennon.

    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace" - Jimi Hendrix.

    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

  7. #177
    Join Date: Oct 2012

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    I'm Steve.

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    It's not really Marco.

    We are all intermingled and England hasn't forgotten Scotland. Nor does London ignore Scotland.

    I am English, Scottish and Irish and consider myself British. I was Born in England, educated in Scotland and became an adult in Ealing.

    Putting a border between Scotland and in my case Northumberland will do nothing but destroy a union that has lasted for hundreds of years. I see no benefit and none either side do.

    A few years ago there was a referendum in Scotland and the result was to stay. More recently there was a referendum to leave Europe and it was to leave.

    I couldn't vote in the first although my friends did but I did in the second and my side lost.

    In a democracy that happens.

    If you respect democracy you accept the majority and move on.

    Obviously if you Lily Allen you don't.
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  8. #178
    Join Date: Mar 2008

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    Except it wasn't a majority in Scotland. 62% voted to stay in the EU.
    “Music has always been a matter of energy to me, a question of fuel. Sentimental people call it inspiration, but what they really mean is fuel. I have always needed fuel. I am a serious consumer. On some nights I still believe that a car with the gas needle on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio”

    Hunter S Thompson

  9. #179
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slawts View Post
    It's not really Marco.

    We are all intermingled and England hasn't forgotten Scotland. Nor does London ignore Scotland.

    I am English, Scottish and Irish and consider myself British. I was Born in England, educated in Scotland and became an adult in Ealing.

    Putting a border between Scotland and in my case Northumberland will do nothing but destroy a union that has lasted for hundreds of years. I see no benefit and none either side do.

    A few years ago there was a referendum in Scotland and the result was to stay. More recently there was a referendum to leave Europe and it was to leave.

    I couldn't vote in the first although my friends did but I did in the second and my side lost.

    In a democracy that happens.

    If you respect democracy you accept the majority and move on.
    Obviously if you Lily Allen you don't.
    That's fair enough, but it doesn't change your political beliefs, or desire for change, if what the majority voted for you consider was wrong.

    If the whole Brexit thing had been going on during the last Scottish referendum, I think the result would've been rather different (if the Scots knew then that voting to remain as a part of the UK would subsequently mean leaving the EU) - and that's what I believe will transpire when Sturgeon (and the Scottish electorate) get another crack at it

    I'm afraid I don't share your passion for a 'union', as a true union between Scotland and England has never existed. How could it when Scotland has always been under Westminster rule and treated as a second-class citizen by a succession of English governments?

    The fact is, the UK political system as it stands, and indeed as it has always been, is heavily biased in favour of England - and that is neither right or fair, and also incompatible with any true notion of a union, which is why Scotland now seeks to do something about it... And the fact that the SNP gained so many votes in Scotland during this election is tangible proof of the growing appetite among the Scots for independence, and therefore which I believe will become a reality, sooner rather than later!

    Marco.
    "Count your age by friends, not years. Count your life by smiles, not tears” - John Lennon.

    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace" - Jimi Hendrix.

    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

  10. #180
    Join Date: May 2010

    Location: Worcestershire, UK

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    I'm Rob.

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    Leaving the EU

    When I was doing my apprenticeship in the early 80s one of my college lecturers put the best case I've heard in favour of the EU: That if we have multinational companies we need multinational unions of countries to stop them playing one country off against the other. And I see it all too clearly now with the likes of Apple, Amazon, Facebook and Google off-shoring to avoid paying tax. I only see the EU working with some effectiveness to stop this.

    Since then I've seen other benefits, from freedom of trade to freedom of movement - I like being able to live or work anywhere in the EU, and hate the fact I'm having that freedom taken away from me.

    Saying that, I don't think it is going to be then end of the world leaving the EU. I think it's a mistake, in my opinion, but the country will manage. However, as we have already learnt, the line that leaving would be easy was ignorant wishful thinking. The process is complicated - we have all sorts of relationships that need to be unpicked, from obvious ones like the trade agreement to things like policing cooperation to collaboration on space exploration. Things like the loss access to centralised trading standards checking, means the U.K. will have to replace those services with U.K. only facilities and setting that up takes time and money.

    The big lie was that other countries will be falling over themselves to trade with us and that we would find it easy to get better deals than we had via the EU.

    Returning to freedom of movement. I don't think most people's dislike of this is due to racism or zenophobia. I think the problem is not that there are immigrants here, but rather the perception that they get a better deal than native Brits. That they jump the benefits and housing lists unfairly. That they get benefit Brits don't. If those worries/issues were addressed, and the benefits to Brits of having freedom of movement was highlighted, that less people would be against it. Even simple things like properly monitoring the immigration numbers would be good.

    So as you can see, I think leaving the EU is a mistake, is going to take a lot of work, but it can be done.

    Austerity

    Far more concerning to me is what the Conservatives have done to the welfare state and justice system. The huge cuts in funding have been disastrous. We now live in a country where working families are forced to use food banks!

    I do voluntary work with the Ambulance Service. I see regularly the effects of ambulances having to queue at A&Es. I'm often the one who's first on scene and having to wait for an ambulance to arrive because too many are stuck at A&E. I see people being referred to the ambulance service because they cannot get access to treatment quickly any other way. I also see ambulance crews and the police having to spend time working with social and mental health issues that used to be picked up by other (mainly local authority funded - and hence slashed) services.

    I work in London and see all the homeless people. I don't want to live in country were the least fortunate - or able to manage - are dumped on the streets; but I do.

    And I hope none of you are wrongly accused of committing a crime. You will most likely not get legal aid due to the massive recent cuts, and even if you are not found guilt you will not get all your legal costs back due to recent changes in the law.

    Labour

    So I'm sadden that Labour didn't win, because I believe they would have done far more to reverse austerity than the Conservatives ever will.

    So why do I think they lost:

    Firstly, I think Corbyn is a decent man, but not a good leader. His dithering over the EU was a huge mistake. And he just isn't charismatic enough. Compare him to Nicola Sturgeon or even Caroline Lucas. Similar politics but those woman were a lot better at putting their cases.

    Secondly, Labour have been ignoring their core vote for too long. They've taken them for granted. They needed to be in Wales and the North East listening to people concerns, but I don't think they did enough of that.

    But lastly I think they suffered from not having a clear simple policy. Their offering was too complicated and lacked focus. They had nothing to compare to the simple "Let's get brexit done".
    Rob.
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