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Thread: Moving magnet carts , can they -

  1. #41
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: Canaries

    Posts: 181

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    Hi JohnG,

    I will ask him but donīt build your hopes up. I believe he is not accepting any new orders at present. I will get back to you.

    What I can tell you is that there are in fact 2 different body models and therefore 2 different styli fits. Mine is the one with open lugs instead of holes and the 4-sided guide tune enters into an orifice entirely situated on the front face of the body as opposed to the other where the hole straddles the front face and bottom. hence the talk of ill fitting replacements. Be careful- )I have no idea which one the Sas-1 fits.

  2. #42
    Join Date: Feb 2010

    Location: Moved to frozen north, beyond Inverness

    Posts: 1,626
    I'm Dave.

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    I just spotted a post about an AT moving coil cartridge, so I followed it up by looking at the AT site and the specifications. One sentence alarmed me - effectively that there seems to be no way for an end user to change the stylus.

    Is this normal with moving coil units? If so, given the original high cost of some of these, that would pretty much bang these on the head for me. Even with a stylus replacement service, that would probably still be relatively expensive, and present extra inconvenience. Am I wrong about this?

    At maybe $500 (or more) for one of those models, 500 playing hours would cost $1 per hour - which is perhaps not too bad if the results justified it, or can these things go for thousands of hours before stylus replacement/repair/update is an inevitable requirement?
    Dave

  3. #43
    Join Date: Oct 2014

    Location: Surrey

    Posts: 335
    I'm Graham.

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    Hi Dave, you make a very good point. the more sophisticated profiles will last longer, microline 1000 hours, Shibata 800 hours, and elliptical only 300 hours, according to Audio Technica. Which is a good argument against buying a cheapo profile as over the life of several cartridges , the cost of a better sounding profile would be little more than the cost of running more frequent cheaper cartridges.
    My Audio Technica Microline cartridges do seem to last for the stated hours. Using a record cleaner will extend the life of a stylus. But won't make any difference to cantilever sag which finished my first OC 9.
    I would recommend making sure the rest of your replay chain is up to scratch before investing in a big bucks cart. For example a better phonostage SUT or Headamp can give just as big an improvement and won't wear out.
    I have learnt this the hard way, having used but not got the best out of some MC carts. In the end I sold or retired the carts and went back to MM while I got everything else sorted out.
    Now I can definitely appreciate the benefits of MC over a good MM, but it's taken a lot of time and tweaking to realise the potential.

  4. #44
    Join Date: Apr 2016

    Location: Gravesend and France

    Posts: 1,360
    I'm paul.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vrajbasi View Post
    Be it moving coil or moving magnet I find many cartridges simply do not cut the mustard in general sounding rather lean and bleached, the days of the great moving magnets such a Audio Technica atm170ml and180ml and shure ultra 500 have long gone. I can quite happily listen to the top end grado,s while they can be a little un entertaining but prefer these to 80 percent of moving coils out there. I have a London reference while I love it very much could not use it as a only cartridge I would want something a bit more refined and full bodied. Most moving coils to me sound rather thin and bleached even the likes of koetsu do not have there engaging qualities they once had. I just purchased a ortofon Ana diamond and again while I hear fantastic detail and wonderful imaging it just does not make music in my opinion the way I personally like. Moving magnets never quite have the detail and insight full ness of a good coil but at least in some instances do not have the hardness and bleached quality many coils have, generally I have found many expensive coils uninspiring to say the least. Luckily there are some lovely cartridges available that still make me smile I always keep a host of spu cartridges to make me smile while they dont do everything at least they have body and scale, the deccas have to be mentioned for there fun perspective, the Miajima's and very nice while they can be heavy bottomed would certainly put them in the high rank for there musical abilities and am happy to live with them. If I were lower down the scale I still like the grado's while lack the ultimate detail can sound very musical and rewarding to say the least. Some of the older cartridges from years back just seemed to have more body and soul and less analytic in my opinion. As moving coils go the likes of hannah while not the ultimate can be rather nice and pleasant and kind of affordable. I just find the whole cartridge buying experience rather daunting one cannot really listen to most models at home and even if you do one gets sample variations even two ortofon ana cartridges do not sound identical but compared to most others ortofons are better in this regard. Moving magnets can sound good as can good coils its certainly not a case of spending more and getting more in my opinion and certainly not easy to choose the right cartridge for many one has to buy blindly and hope for the best. For now I listen to the Etsuro line of cartridges and smile even that was quite daunting as I had to trust my dealer but generally he is pretty much spot on as he has heard almost everything on the market. I have come to the conclusion there are a handful of great cartridge manufacturer's out there and one just has to be careful at whatever price point, as its certainly not a easy purchase and can easily left very very un satisfied.
    Shure ultra 500 in a Martin bastin body and Jico stylus for me, wouldn't swap it for anything. I had a decca c4e that gave that up front dynamic sound but it also picked out every speck of dust on a record and drove me nuts.
    Bakoon 11R Denon DP80 Stax UA-70 Shure Ultra 500 in a Martin Bastin body with jico stylus, project ds2 digital Lii audio crystal 10 tqwt speakers

    Office system, DIY CSS fullrange speakers with aurum cantus G2 ribbons Najda dsp as dac Akai AM-U02 Jvc QL-A51 direct drive turntable
    leema sub. JVC Z4S cart is in the house

    Garage system another Sony receiver, cassette deck


    System components are subject to change without warning and at the discretion of the owner.

  5. #45
    Join Date: Mar 2009

    Location: South West-ish, UK

    Posts: 330
    I'm Patrick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dave2010 View Post
    Is this normal with moving coil units?
    Yes it is. If you think about the stylus/cantilever assembly on a MC compared to a MM, you'll realise that it would be very hard to engineer a solution that has a user replaceable stylus on an MC. The MM just has magnets on the end of the cantilever, whereas the MC has tiny coils which have to connect into the arm wiring using tiny wires.

  6. #46
    Join Date: Feb 2010

    Location: Moved to frozen north, beyond Inverness

    Posts: 1,626
    I'm Dave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by graham67 View Post
    Hi Dave, you make a very good point. the more sophisticated profiles will last longer, microline 1000 hours, Shibata 800 hours, and elliptical only 300 hours, according to Audio Technica. Which is a good argument against buying a cheapo profile as over the life of several cartridges , the cost of a better sounding profile would be little more than the cost of running more frequent cheaper cartridges.
    So how do the costs per playing hour stack up - MC vs MM if we assume that some form of factory refit is needed with the MCs periodically - or do you simply discard them or start over? [.. which I rather doubt ...]

    Do true enthusiasts have more than one cartridge on the go, to allow for downtime/refit time? Also, do you get picky about which discs get played, and perhaps just go for CD or something else if the recordings are known to be below par?

    I'm yet to be convinced of the merits of vinyl, having switched to CD almost as soon as CDs were available, but I still have LPs, and in some cases I have felt that the LPs did sound better than the equivalent CD version. I wouldn't really want to switch back either to MM or MC unless there were clear sonic benefits, and additionally if so doing to get acceptable quality didn't require me to sell my house, car, wife .....
    Dave

  7. #47
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 64,041
    I'm Grant.

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    Ive used both, and ive never worn out a stylus lately.. mostly stick now to mm, as I prefer the sound. Ive 3 carts currently in rotation. You can get quite a few sides out of a stylus, so as long as its not on 10 hrs a day its going to take a good length of time to wear it out.
    as soon as im up to it im gonna sell my vinyl front end as im not getting the use of it now. im all files now really.

    edit, keeping records clean will also increase the tips life.
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
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  8. #48
    Join Date: Jan 2020

    Location: South Yorkshire

    Posts: 1,067
    I'm Andre.

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    Never touch an MC again. Rock music sounds so much better to me with a good MM/MI.. Anyway MC are above me
    Rebuilt: JVC 'JL-A1' Turntable with Audiotronic 'AMC-70ED' Cartridge/Jico styli - Rebuilt: Sony 'TA-1055' Amplifier - Rewired & Modded ROSS 'RE-272'' Headsets - Trio 'KX-710' Cassette Deck.

    Not decided on speekapoos yet

    FLAC/PC - HRT 'Streamer' - Citronic 'CE-22' Processor - S.M.S.L 'SAP-9' Headphone amp - AKG 'K141, Mk,II' Headphones - Mackie 'MR-824' Active Monitors

  9. #49
    Join Date: May 2012

    Location: Toulouse, France

    Posts: 4,812
    I'm Kevin.

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    If you want value for money, have a look at the new AT VM-95ML.
    A big step up from the old AT95e of old, with a micro line stylus. Sure, you can get a better MM cartridge, but they come at a much higher cost.
    Kevin

    Too busy enjoying the music....

    European loan coordinator for Graham Slee HiFi system components..

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