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Thread: Moving magnet carts , can they -

  1. #11
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

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    I'm Andrew.

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    I've seven or eight MM of various brands and have many SPU's and high end Ortofon's........ I'll stick with my Cadenza black!!
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  2. #12
    Hibster_2000 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by graham67 View Post
    IME, it is easier to get an MM sounding good, (usually all it involves is a generic 47k loading and 100pf capacitance).

    Getting the best from an MC cart can take a lot more effort (particularly where it involves a SUT or headamp). A decent MM cart will often outperform a similarly priced MC using a switchable MM/MC stage, particularly when it comes to rhythm and timing. What you gain in detail is often at the expense of that elusive musicality. I am not saying that MC carts are less musical, rather it can be harder to obtain that sweet spot where it all comes together.

    It has taken a lot of time to get the best out of my MC carts. Worth it? Yes but dont expect to pop on an MC and necessarily achieve audio nirvana, it might take a bit of tweaking (and box changes) to achieve it!

    I note you mention the AT VM760, one step up from my fave MM the AT150Sa (all but identical to the VM750). This is an excellent MM and will give plenty of mid range MC carts stiff competition. Used into a reasonable valve MM phono stage, you will get a high quality sound that will require more cash if you want to better using an MC cart.
    Agree with this, although I have never heard the AT150SA, but have heard the AT20SS and AT150MLX. Both very good carts, and need an eye wateringly expensive MC to better them.

  3. #13
    Join Date: Nov 2019

    Location: Lancs

    Posts: 29
    I'm Philip.

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    Thank you to everyone who has replied .

    I guess at the very high end of the MC world there is no competition from moving magnets , but what about the more affordable moving coils lets say the £500-£1000 range are they still head and shoulders above the better MM carts ? .

  4. #14
    Join Date: Mar 2009

    Location: South West-ish, UK

    Posts: 457
    I'm Patrick.

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    I've had a few MC and MM cartridges over the years, but I just use Decca's now. They are neither MC or MM (although they use a MM gain phono stage). They need the right setup and partnering equipment, but IMV they get you closer to the music than any of the MCs I've owned, although maybe without some of the sugar-coating.

  5. #15
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

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    I'm Adrian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Dixon View Post
    I've had a few MC and MM cartridges over the years, but I just use Decca's now. They are neither MC or MM (although they use a MM gain phono stage). They need the right setup and partnering equipment, but IMV they get you closer to the music than any of the MCs I've owned, although maybe without some of the sugar-coating.
    Hi Patricl, Do you use London Decca cartridges and if so which do you prefer if you have tried more than one? Thanks Adrian
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound, and accepting you get it wrong sometimes.

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  6. #16
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 31,856
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJSki2fly View Post
    Hi Patricl, Do you use London Decca cartridges and if so which do you prefer if you have tried more than one? Thanks Adrian
    I was going to suggest that fixed-coil cartridges can sometimes equal the performance of moving-coil designs, citing the Deccas in particular.

    Whilst employing fixed coils (though they could also be designated 'moving iron' cartridges), Deccas are so removed from other fixed-coil designs that comparison is difficult. They use a 'sum and difference' arrangement of coils (which means only 3 wires are used; often causing hum problems when interfaced with the usual 4-wire systems of virtually all pickup arms), do not use a cantilever, have a pitifully low compliance (especially to stylus motion in the vertical plane), and can suffer from the most appalling workmanship and sample-to-sample variation. They can also be a PITA to set up and use - but when done properly and with care, can offer a presentation of the musical performance and a listening experience that is breathtaking and second to none.

    Not a cartridge for everyone - but I always have a Decca set up on one of my TTs. Having listened to nearly all of Decca's designs and still owning a few - my favourite is the SC4E. If I were to buy a 'new' Decca, it would be the London 'Reference' - not cheap, but the workmanship is significantly improved, the sample variability eliminated, and it comes with the normal 4 output pins.



    But if you want the excitement, air, atmosphere and transient attack of the Decca, coupled with the poise and elegance of a moving coil design, look for one of the Ikeda cantileverless MC designs.
    Last edited by Barry; 06-12-2019 at 19:26. Reason: spelling
    Barry

  7. #17
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

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    I'm Grant.

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    Only heard one and it sounded pretty tinny to me, and on a decent system of the day.
    I'm sure it's not the norm but it put me right off. The owner sadly thought it was good.
    I stick with my mm stuff, although I've already started boxing up records for storage.
    I'm not giving them away for pennies. We'll not at moment. I'd rather keep them.
    Or sell them to someone who actually wanted them and not the profit they can make.
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  8. #18
    Join Date: Mar 2009

    Location: South West-ish, UK

    Posts: 457
    I'm Patrick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJSki2fly View Post
    Hi Patricl, Do you use London Decca cartridges and if so which do you prefer if you have tried more than one? Thanks Adrian
    I have had a few, all secondhand and all rebuilt by John Wright. Currently have an SC4e and C4e plus some 78 rpm and 'head' versions. I also had a Blue which I had rebuilt and transplanted into a wooden body and is now with a friend. Like Barry I would probably go for a London Reference if buying new.

    I am currently using the SC4e in a Hadcock 242SE on a Sony TTS-8000 and it sounds better than any previous combination. I also have the C4e in a Mission 774 on a Thorens TD-124/2 and have previously used them in a Terminator and SME 3009/2 Imp (with damping).

    I think the key is to get mass at the headshell (which is why the Mk4s and the re-bodied one sounded best IMV) and to find a good tonearm match. I contemplated buying a Graham Phantom to try but the Haddcock is just fantastic with my SC4e (it's a newer 10" version). I'd still like to try with a Graham and/or a Kuzma 4point one day or maybe a Nottingham Analogue Ace Anna.

    Dynamics are amazing and in the Sony/Hadcock I also get a wide and spacious soundstage which was a little unexpected. As Barry says, the Deccas are essentially a mono design with a vertical component added as a afterthought to give stereo.

    I was long intrigued about Deccas but topoxforddoc (Charlie's) write-up on his C4e a few years ago prompted me to try one. It's been a journey, but I was hooked once I heard The Jam 'Sound Affects' played on a very ragged Decca Blue.

  9. #19
    Join Date: Jul 2010

    Location: Cheltenham

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    I'm Charlie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Dixon View Post

    Dynamics are amazing and in the Sony/Hadcock I also get a wide and spacious soundstage which was a little unexpected. As Barry says, the Deccas are essentially a mono design with a vertical component added as a afterthought to give stereo.

    I was long intrigued about Deccas but topoxforddoc (Charlie's) write-up on his C4e a few years ago prompted me to try one. It's been a journey, but I was hooked once I heard The Jam 'Sound Affects' played on a very ragged Decca Blue.
    I agree entirely. As a lifelong (at least in hi-fi terms) Decca user, the Decca bring an immediacy to the sound, which virtually no other cartridge provides. I have been using Decca since the age of 15, when I worked as the saturday boy with ken Kessler in Canterbury Hi-Fi. IMO the best vintage Decca is the FFSS MkIV (SC4e, C4e, RC4). If I had the spare cash, I would buy a new London Reference. It took me 3 years to track down a MkIV, but it was one of the best bits of kit I have bought in 40 years.
    R2R: Studer A820 1/2 inch 2 track; Otari MTR-12 1/4 inch 2 track; Sony APR 5003; Sony APR 5002; Studer A807/II. Vinyl: Platine Verdier Allaerts MC1B/Schroeder Reference & Model 2 Decca C4E/Hadcock 228 TRON Seven Reference phono. Keith Monks MkII RCM Other analogue source: Nakamichi Dragon with ANT4066 mods. Amplification: TRON Meteor preamp TRON Voyager 20B SET power. Speakers: Avantgarde Duo. Digital: computing at last with Prism Sound Lyra 2 A2D converter

  10. #20
    Join Date: Aug 2013

    Location: Isle of Wight, UK

    Posts: 73
    I'm David.

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    Another vote for the Decca C4e. I bought mine on a whim (because I hadn't heard one) and have listened to it more than my other cartridges ever since. It's really very, very good.

    David Whistance

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