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Thread: I know I shouldn't grumble but...

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by struth View Post
    always made a good substitute for toilet paper did sun. certainly had a similar content when used
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  2. #72
    Join Date: Jan 2009

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    I'm openingabottleofwine.

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    I read somewhere (probably apocryphal) that the guidelines for writers for the Sun were as follows:

    Try to avoid using words having more than three syllables

    Try to avoid having more than five words in a sentence

    Try to avoid having more than seven sentences in a paragraph.
    Barry

  3. #73
    montesquieu Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    I read somewhere (probably apocryphal) that the guidelines for writers for the Sun were as follows:

    Try to avoid using words having more than three syllables

    Try to avoid having more than five words in a sentence

    Try to avoid having more than seven sentences in a paragraph.

    The rule on most newspapers (even broadsheets) is to use short words and simple sentences where possible, but five words a sentence wouldn't be practical in anything other than a haiku.

    On The Sun as well as most tabloids it's normally one sentence per paragraph, very short first paragraph. So 12-15 words first par, 15-20 words subsequent paragraphs.

    No more than seven sentences in a paragraph is about right for a long form book. On a tabloid news story (as opposed to something on the features pages) seven sentences might be a sensible maximum for the whole piece.

  4. #74
    Join Date: Jan 2009

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    I did say it was probably apocryphal. The 3-5-7 rule seemed to be a bit too convenient, despite being memorable.

    Haiku in the Sun?
    Now that's a strange idea
    To amuse readers
    .
    Last edited by Barry; 29-11-2019 at 01:22. Reason: Addition
    Barry

  5. #75
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Norwich

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    I wasn't aware of a word or sentence formula in anything. A sentence represents a different thought or aspect on the subject being discussed. A paragraph denotes a completely different subject area within the overriding theme or topic.

    I only read one newspaper, and it's becoming increasingly obvious that (a) the writers are not fully educated in their supposed skill, and/or (b) nobody reads anything before it's published (proof-reading).

    The election material hitting the doormat at increasing intervals nowadays suffers from either too many (erroneous) capital letters, poor syntax, starting sentences with a conjunction, poor punctuation or even missing words. I've given up red-inking this stuff nowadays, and no party is better than another. There's been an appalling degradation of written English over the past few decades, but it's not difficult to point the finger.

    I received a 4 page newsletter today from the Labour Party. At least I thought it was, because the whole front page background was in red. It was actually from the Tories, so obviously colour blindness is an issue as well.

  6. #76
    Join Date: Apr 2012

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    Many use only text speak as their written communication now.
    It is impossible for anything digital to sound analogue, because it isn't analogue!

  7. #77
    montesquieu Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Reed View Post
    I wasn't aware of a word or sentence formula in anything. A sentence represents a different thought or aspect on the subject being discussed. A paragraph denotes a completely different subject area within the overriding theme or topic.

    I only read one newspaper, and it's becoming increasingly obvious that (a) the writers are not fully educated in their supposed skill, and/or (b) nobody reads anything before it's published (proof-reading).

    The election material hitting the doormat at increasing intervals nowadays suffers from either too many (erroneous) capital letters, poor syntax, starting sentences with a conjunction, poor punctuation or even missing words. I've given up red-inking this stuff nowadays, and no party is better than another. There's been an appalling degradation of written English over the past few decades, but it's not difficult to point the finger.

    I received a 4 page newsletter today from the Labour Party. At least I thought it was, because the whole front page background was in red. It was actually from the Tories, so obviously colour blindness is an issue as well.
    As someone who worked as a sub-editor for over 10 years (though not for the last 25 or so) I can say that most writers including big name ones are pretty poor on stuff like grammar, syntax, usage ... what a lot of reporters do have is the ability to go out, talk to people and get a story back. That and writing are not the same skill. Sub-editors save writers from looking ridiculous, day in, day out.

    Unfortunately the sub-editing function has been severely hit by spending cuts. An example - when I worked on the Daily Record in Glasgow it sold 800,000 copies a day and commanded sky high advertising rates. It now sells about 150,000 on average and rates have fallen through the floor. It also employs about 20% of the editorial staff that it used to employ. This has hit quality drastically as many of the cuts were made on the various subs' desks.

    Combine that with the fact that pay has fallen pretty hard - a senior journalist now gets less than I was earning in the early 90s. Not in 'real terms' ie adjusted for inflation, but in actual pound notes - and the fact that the young people who can afford to work for these kind of salaries are so poorly educated in the basics of English these days, and you get ever-falling standards of English.

    There are additional factors relating to the online world: not only are people are simply less careful when writing for online consumption, but many newspapers divert staff to censorship duty - making sure nothing untoward appears below the line in the comments section - that would once have been devoted to making sure standards in the actual paper were up to snuff.

    Sub-editing is not proof-reading BTW. Subs at least in the old days spent a long time re-writing copy and creating snappy headlines. That has given way to much lighter-touch on-screen editing. Proof reading happens once the page is already typeset, ie already a proof.

    As for sentences and paragraphs - a news story isn't a school essay and paragraphs don't work that way in newspapers, in the tabloids particularly. What's most important there is the use of space, to assist in readability and clarity, rather than observing strict ideas about what a paragraph should and shoudn't be.
    Last edited by montesquieu; 29-11-2019 at 17:05.

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    many use only text speak as their written communication now.
    smh nvm lmk @teotd 2mor:d
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  9. #79
    Join Date: Sep 2014

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawrence001 View Post
    I thought we discussed these a while ago but you sold them to someone else?

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  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    I did say it was probably apocryphal. The 3-5-7 rule seemed to be a bit too convenient, despite being memorable.

    Haiku in the Sun?
    Now that's a strange idea
    To amuse readers
    .
    Truth in the sun?
    Now that’s a strange idea
    To the 96
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