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Thread: A totally new British amplifier.. A challenge?

  1. #31
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    Yes Anthony COST is the issue here I feel.

    Quality casework here in the UK around 300-400 for that alone if you purchase 12+ complete units ( I am talking quality casework and finishing here)

    You could manage around 85% of all British but there would be a cost premium without question, PLUS true audiophile products are for the few and far between, the vast majority of audio products are sold in John Lewis etc.

    The audiophile is a dead duck for true business, just not enough of it without question, HOWEVER the lifestyle, Essex bling, overseas middle east, eastern Asia and Russian customers then (just to stick in Napoleon's claw) these will spend serious $$$ on looks and impressing their oligarch friends one afternoon after flying in on personal Lear jets from an afternoon of racing around their private tracks in France.

    This is not the late 80's or 90's anymore people buying habits, products have moved on from the multi box monsters of big hair 80's, gone are the racks of green lit equipment, now its slick, good looking all in one box solutions for the greater masses.

    You guys are some of the last of the tinkers as these buyers from the previous era's have retired no longer have the disposable income or have sadly passed away, true their are a few, but these numbers are reducing.

    Its the law of economics, their is good talent here in the UK home grown as well, but its pretty much financial suicide to open up a new manufacturer just to produce audiophile goods. Unless you go Kicker starter or have very wealth friends who need to 'loose' funds on a regular basis.

    Look at Meridian if the owner was not married to a US multi millionaire's daughter who is very big in the film industry do you really feel they could keep going with 'x' losses?

    Manageability and market research is the key imho
    Coherent Systems
    Real high end sound with musicality not hifi

  2. #32
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: North Down /Northern Ireland/ UK

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    I'm Neil.

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    Who cares. If the best performing item, needs components from other countries to sound the best then that surely is the most important thing, not if its made in Britain a rather nebulous thing that fluctuates to include or not include Scotland or Wales, when it suits.

    I want best sound, for the given function and money, where its made or not made I do not care one jot.
    Regards Neil

  3. #33
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: South Wales

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    Sadly I can't disagree with much of that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. C View Post
    Yes Anthony COST is the issue here I feel.

    Quality casework here in the UK around 300-400 for that alone if you purchase 12+ complete units ( I am talking quality casework and finishing here)

    You could manage around 85% of all British but there would be a cost premium without question, PLUS true audiophile products are for the few and far between, the vast majority of audio products are sold in John Lewis etc.

    The audiophile is a dead duck for true business, just not enough of it without question, HOWEVER the lifestyle, Essex bling, overseas middle east, eastern Asia and Russian customers then (just to stick in Napoleon's claw) these will spend serious $$$ on looks and impressing their oligarch friends one afternoon after flying in on personal Lear jets from an afternoon of racing around their private tracks in France.

    This is not the late 80's or 90's anymore people buying habits, products have moved on from the multi box monsters of big hair 80's, gone are the racks of green lit equipment, now its slick, good looking all in one box solutions for the greater masses.

    You guys are some of the last of the tinkers as these buyers from the previous era's have retired no longer have the disposable income or have sadly passed away, true their are a few, but these numbers are reducing.

    Its the law of economics, their is good talent here in the UK home grown as well, but its pretty much financial suicide to open up a new manufacturer just to produce audiophile goods. Unless you go Kicker starter or have very wealth friends who need to 'loose' funds on a regular basis.

    Look at Meridian if the owner was not married to a US multi millionaire's daughter who is very big in the film industry do you really feel they could keep going with 'x' losses?

    Manageability and market research is the key imho
    "Today scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
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  4. #34
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    Just taking up Neil's point for a moment

    If you are talking 'best' then your cost is not an issue this negates all of the above issues no question, BUT the amount of these products would be around 10 units max per year due to the amount of time to hand build these best units, no production line modular systems to work with just pure one on one with the product.

    Though I feel Josie's point wasn't that one.

    A couple of years ago we looked at a truly English amplifier manufacturer, quality products price pints between 3-7K, dealers liked the product but said can't sell it, why when asked easy reply came 'Its, not Quad, B&W, PMC, ATC, Arcam, Cyrus etc we can sell that to cows come home!'

    Then there is the perception in the market place customers want provenance with their audio (audiophiles do anyway!) and that takes time and trust, look what happened to Devialet in the UK


    The best is quite simple, you pay your money etc, with a more standard product the rules are very different imho
    Coherent Systems
    Real high end sound with musicality not hifi

  5. #35
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    Is there something intrinsically superior to UK audiophile components as compared to what is made in, say, Sweden, Germany, Japan, USA?
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  6. #36
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    Most electrical items produced around the world are an assembly of globally produced items based on price, quality and functionality. In terms of building a truly 'National' amplifier I would have thought the only countries able to do so would be Japan, China, USA and possibly Russia?
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  7. #37
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: North Down /Northern Ireland/ UK

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    I'm Neil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. C View Post
    Just taking up Neil's point for a moment

    If you are talking 'best' then your cost is not an issue this negates all of the above issues no question, BUT the amount of these products would be around 10 units max per year due to the amount of time to hand build these best units, no production line modular systems to work with just pure one on one with the product.

    Though I feel Josie's point wasn't that one.

    A couple of years ago we looked at a truly English amplifier manufacturer, quality products price pints between 3-7K, dealers liked the product but said can't sell it, why when asked easy reply came 'Its, not Quad, B&W, PMC, ATC, Arcam, Cyrus etc we can sell that to cows come home!'

    Then there is the perception in the market place customers want provenance with their audio (audiophiles do anyway!) and that takes time and trust, look what happened to Devialet in the UK


    The best is quite simple, you pay your money etc, with a more standard product the rules are very different imho
    Well best at the given price points. Clever, well judged components, taken from where ever they can be found to give the best product at the various prices, 500, 1000, 1500, 2000 +

    Unfortunately many are brainwashed that What HiFi 5 star products are the best option, when What HiFi frankly is a joke with an over damped demo room (was the case) that only bright, forward kit sounds any good. Every brand you list fall into that camp, except maybe PMC.

    I have no idea what happened to Devialet in the UK. The very nature of the designs put me off ever being interested in them.
    Last edited by Spectral Morn; 19-11-2019 at 16:47.
    Regards Neil

  8. #38
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    Would agree with a lot of thoughts on the What Caravan rotation of the usual drivel Neil

    I suspect that most discerning music lovers are looking for something a little more engaging with long term satisfaction.

    Pretty sure the Onix guys produce here in the UK as well

    Any more thoughts Josie?
    Coherent Systems
    Real high end sound with musicality not hifi

  9. #39
    Join Date: Sep 2009

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. C View Post
    Would agree with a lot of thoughts on the What Caravan rotation of the usual drivel Neil

    I suspect that most discerning music lovers are looking for something a little more engaging with long term satisfaction.

    Pretty sure the Onix guys produce here in the UK as well

    Any more thoughts Josie?
    Not really. All good so far.

    Maybe different complexity of units would offer a more doable challenge? A simple amplifier might be more possible.

    Aren't Chord also British?



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  10. #40
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    Chord electronics just what the doctor ordered for one of the best methods of non evasive ear wax removal.

    Good call indeed.

    A basic straight power amplifier maybe valves could do this, as mentioned all the decent FET's are non UK made, same for the discretes not sure all of the Zetex transistors is all made in the UK maybe Issac could enlighten us (if he still posts here?) his dad is Mr Zetex!

    Maybe Anthony could produce a very close to all English unit, I would seriously struggle to achieve this and generate the sound our products actually do currently and going backwards in performance is not what our products are about.

    Its not that we cannot do this here in the UK its the production costs and the potential demand for them.
    Coherent Systems
    Real high end sound with musicality not hifi

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